Did Jesus exist?

[The Grand Nudger]

You've stated your position many times. Some people (in the church, which apparently really did exist) made up some people (the authors, who may or may not have really existed), who made up some people (Jesus and his disciples), which then persuaded people (because the fictional authors were somehow credible authorities). You also once suggested that we read the New Testament like a modern work of fiction. I forgot the specific title you named but...Yeah, it was all pretty stupid. I don't know if your explanation is any different now... I'd sure hope so.

Way to poison the well and present yet -another- bale of straw in place of my position.  At least you got the last bit nearly right.  I think that the NT should be approached like -all- works of fiction, ancient and modern.  Because it's clearly a work of fiction...even if it's historical fiction...........

That's always the case... whether we're reading Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Cicero... your statement that "it's completely irrational as a comment on historicity" is absurd... no it's asinine. Do you understand that basically all of history is told from individual perspectives? 

I know, I know, it's absurd, it's assanine....hell my statement fucked it's cousin and finished off in the goat too - I mean really go for it if you're gonna go for it.  It's also true.  There is no point at which the level of belief or commitment of an author to their work turns into -it really happened-.  There just isn't.  If you can't acknowledge this we can't have a rational discussion.

Wrong... again. It's not irrelevant. He had a reputation as a miracle worker, and the stories about his alleged healings spread unto the point of embellishment that we see in the written accounts. More importantly, and contrary to your beliefs, in introducing these anecdotes we see that nobody - the multiple, separate sources that you concede we do in fact possess (which is already pretty good for anyone from the first century, especially a Jewish rabbi) - doubted whether or not he actually existed.

Who had a reputation as a miracle worker?  Historical jesus or the character of jesus in the NT narrative (and all discarded narratives)?  You think that at some point people not doubting their beliefs translates into -it really happened-?  We have creationists who don't doubt their beliefs -today-..here, on these boards.  Go apply that knockdown argument to them.  

Please tell me where it is that you find Jews prior to the figure of Jesus awaiting a crucified Messiah. And unless you have anything to put forth that disputes the claim underlying all of these works - that Jesus was a real person - it is in fact you who is assuming what you need to demonstrate. The evidence is clearly on my side.

Why would I dispute the claim? Im asking for the evidence, and failing that, some valid means of inference to get from the claim to the conclusion.  I can read the claim just as easily as you can.

Are you really going to end this response with "The bible says so, so the evidence is on my side".......? We're clearly not having the same discussion.

Lets say we've winnowed down the story to a pool of candidate historical jesi..after we get rid of all the "obvious fantasy", how do we decide from that remaining mundane pool which are the true historical details, and which are the narrative details? That's the trouble all the historical jesi have -always- faced. We acknowledge from the outset that at least some of it is myth and legend -this is fiction-, and we don't have valid means to determine true from narrative detail among what is left. Fiction isn't limited to the ghostly details of a ghost story....and that people believe in some or all of the details of such a story is no argument or evidence of their accuracy. Meanwhile mythical and legendary jesus is remarkably easy to demonstrate..it's right there on the page..no shitty inference required....whatever vague notion of a historical jesus you have is irrelevant to it. There's just no need.

...but apparently that's assanine, absurd, fucked its cousin and a goat....hey, take it from here for me would you?