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Current time: June 13, 2024, 6:59 pm

Poll: What's your stance on the supernatural?
This poll is closed.
Not a naturalist
11.43%
4 11.43%
Methodological naturalist
34.29%
12 34.29%
Philosophical naturalist
45.71%
16 45.71%
Other (please specify)
8.57%
3 8.57%
Total 35 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Your position on naturalism
#40
RE: Your position on naturalism
(November 22, 2016 at 6:45 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:
(November 20, 2016 at 5:21 am)Whateverist Wrote: The limitations of any particular form of consciousness color the world we perceive in ways consistent with our kind.  In no way does mind, divine or otherwise, create the world which we detect.  The world or "matter" is primary, perception or "mind" is secondary.

What do you mean, there? 

Emphasis added. 


I had to go back to look at the paragraph from which that snippet was taken to remember what I did mean there.  Thanks for bringing it up because I think it is important.  In that paragraph from which you quoted I meant to contrast what I think is the correct analysis of the mind/matter conflict with the one which seems to impress theists which I was referring to in the second paragraph of my post from which you took that quote. This one:




The flawed mind/matter dilemma worries about how we from our point of view are supposed to differentiate between perception imparted by the world and that which is a product of the mind.  This view attributes to minds the capacity to create objects in a manner parallel to those encountered in the world.  Theists seem to find fuel for believing that a supernatural realm is a source for at least some of those mind created pseudo objects, especially that most revered of objects, God.  Believers attribute all objects to God's creations.  Those that we apprehend as being physical objects in the world are but a part of God's grand creation, an idea in God's mind.  In this resolution of the mind/matter dilemma primacy is given to mind.

But our modern way of looking at the relationship between minds and the world (matter) is very different.  We note that every creature has a perceptual array with which it finds its way in the world, toward food and mates but away from threats.  Those perceptual array's vary.  The dogs world is 'seen' through its nose, a bat's through its ears and much of ours world is colored by what our eyes see.  But any discrepancy between mind and matter is understood as arising from idiosyncrasies of the sensual medium.  In some cases perhaps we make mistaken assumptions about the world because of glitches in our perceptual/cognitive processing of the data we receive about the world.  But the only thing our minds are producing in these instances are mistakes.  Our mind's job is to create a mental analogue of the real world to help us to navigate our real physical bodies through the natural world.  No mind, not ours' and not God's, creates the physical world.  That is what I mean when I say matter is primary and mind is secondary.
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Messages In This Thread
Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 20, 2016 at 4:01 am
RE: Your position in naturalism - by Jesster - November 20, 2016 at 4:06 am
RE: Your position in naturalism - by Longhorn - November 20, 2016 at 4:11 am
RE: Your position in naturalism - by robvalue - November 20, 2016 at 4:35 am
RE: Your position in naturalism - by Longhorn - November 20, 2016 at 4:12 am
RE: Your position in naturalism - by Whateverist - November 20, 2016 at 5:21 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 20, 2016 at 6:03 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by downbeatplumb - November 20, 2016 at 6:19 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 20, 2016 at 6:28 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 20, 2016 at 6:37 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 20, 2016 at 7:10 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 20, 2016 at 7:31 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by paulpablo - November 20, 2016 at 7:32 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Edwardo Piet - November 20, 2016 at 8:21 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by brewer - November 20, 2016 at 8:40 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 20, 2016 at 9:47 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Alex K - November 20, 2016 at 9:51 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by chimp3 - November 20, 2016 at 10:54 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 20, 2016 at 11:05 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Primordial Bisque - November 20, 2016 at 8:07 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by FallentoReason - November 20, 2016 at 8:30 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 20, 2016 at 9:11 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by FallentoReason - November 20, 2016 at 11:38 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Rhondazvous - November 20, 2016 at 9:03 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Thumpalumpacus - November 20, 2016 at 9:50 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by theologian - November 20, 2016 at 10:33 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 20, 2016 at 11:35 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by theologian - November 20, 2016 at 11:51 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 21, 2016 at 1:12 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Primordial Bisque - November 20, 2016 at 11:59 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Angrboda - November 20, 2016 at 10:58 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by theologian - November 21, 2016 at 1:45 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 21, 2016 at 2:45 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 21, 2016 at 5:46 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Doubting Thomas - November 21, 2016 at 8:50 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Primordial Bisque - November 21, 2016 at 9:04 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 12:59 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Edwardo Piet - November 22, 2016 at 8:22 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Minimalist - November 21, 2016 at 9:24 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 22, 2016 at 6:45 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 7:25 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 22, 2016 at 7:59 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 22, 2016 at 7:28 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by GUBU - November 22, 2016 at 7:31 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 7:44 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 8:03 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 22, 2016 at 8:11 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 8:15 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 22, 2016 at 8:16 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by purplepurpose - November 22, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 1:28 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by purplepurpose - November 22, 2016 at 1:42 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 22, 2016 at 9:07 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 9:19 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 23, 2016 at 9:23 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 22, 2016 at 1:24 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 22, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 11:15 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 11:59 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 12:05 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 12:48 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 1:33 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 3:05 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 6:47 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 6:48 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 6:52 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 7:08 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 7:45 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 7:47 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 24, 2016 at 2:36 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Edwardo Piet - November 24, 2016 at 4:53 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 7:30 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Edwardo Piet - November 24, 2016 at 7:38 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 22, 2016 at 1:49 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 23, 2016 at 1:26 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 1:33 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 7:00 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 7:24 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 24, 2016 at 6:10 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 24, 2016 at 6:36 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 7:10 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Alex K - November 23, 2016 at 7:11 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 23, 2016 at 7:22 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 23, 2016 at 7:27 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Kernel Sohcahtoa - November 24, 2016 at 2:07 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 5:30 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by GUBU - November 24, 2016 at 6:37 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 10:40 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by GUBU - November 24, 2016 at 4:34 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 6:22 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by GUBU - November 25, 2016 at 6:05 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 7:24 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 24, 2016 at 6:52 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 10:42 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 24, 2016 at 11:46 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 4:07 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 25, 2016 at 5:23 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 7:16 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Kernel Sohcahtoa - November 24, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 7:19 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 24, 2016 at 2:11 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 24, 2016 at 3:15 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 24, 2016 at 3:19 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Excited Penguin - November 24, 2016 at 6:54 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 24, 2016 at 10:38 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by RiddledWithFear - November 24, 2016 at 4:49 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Kernel Sohcahtoa - November 24, 2016 at 8:56 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 4:31 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Kernel Sohcahtoa - November 25, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 6:03 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 25, 2016 at 7:51 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 26, 2016 at 4:00 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Edwardo Piet - November 24, 2016 at 10:22 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 6:52 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Foxaèr - November 24, 2016 at 10:28 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 24, 2016 at 11:32 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by rado84 - November 25, 2016 at 6:27 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by robvalue - November 25, 2016 at 6:32 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 25, 2016 at 9:50 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 10:36 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by bennyboy - November 25, 2016 at 12:21 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 1:05 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 25, 2016 at 11:58 am
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Ignorant - November 25, 2016 at 1:16 pm
RE: Your position on naturalism - by Whateverist - November 25, 2016 at 11:21 pm

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