(January 16, 2017 at 6:36 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:(January 16, 2017 at 6:29 pm)Asmodee Wrote: "I don't know" IS an answer. Theists often seem to have the belief that admitting you don't know something is some kind of weakness. On the contrary, the weakness is pretending that you know something you don't. It's a sign of a weak mind.
Except you guys never lead with "I don't know".
Calling something a fairy tale implies you DO know...
Not knowing means you can't say one way or the other.
First of an, I am an individual, not all atheists everywhere. I am not "you guys". If you think you know something about an entire group of people, but the thing which you think you know is not a part of the definition for the word or term which defines that group, then you believe an ignorant thing which is wrong. Realizing when you've done this allows you to shed that ignorance and avoid the same mistake in the future.
Second of all, what I was responding to had nothing whatsoever to do with calling religion a fairy tale and did, in fact, lead with "I don't know". It was direct answers to questions, each answer being "I don't know". I don't know how much more "leading with it" you can do than that.
Finally, that I don't know the cause for something IN NO WAY says that I cannot know what was NOT the cause. Do you claim to not know the universe was not caused by sentient marshmallows? Do you feel the need to evaluate this ludicrous claim? Are you not thinking seriously about it, knowing full well you will never know for sure that sentient marshmallows didn't create the universe? No. You dismiss it immediately. Did you do that because you DO know what caused the universe? No. You may think you know, but you have no proof and therefore it is a belief, not knowledge. So YOU "don't know" what caused the universe, but you are reasonable in your assumption that you can rule out sentient marshmallows. And if you did not immediately rule out sentient marshmallows then you're just stupid. Why would something utterly stupid that I just made up be deserving of serious consideration instead of simple cursory dismissal? It would not. There are a million things you "know" didn't cause the universe, and not one of those things is something you know because you have any real knowledge of what did cause the universe. You CAN both not know what IS the cause AND know what is not the cause.
As a more down to Earth example, if you see bird crap on the sidewalk, you don't know the exact animal responsible for it, but you do know it wasn't a wolf. You do know it wasn't a zebra. You do know it wasn't aliens. You don't know which animal did it, but you can point to many, many animals and say, "It was not that one". You can imagine many more animals, monsters, trolls, fairies, deities, aliens, whatever you like and say, "That thing didn't do it". If you answer your door to find a flaming bag of crap on your porch, you don't know who did do it, but you do know your long deceased ancestors did not do it. You do know your brother who just got deployed to Iraq with the Air Force did not do it. You do know your newborn child did not do it. "Don't know who did" and "Do know who did not" ARE NOT mutually exclusive. You CAN know one and not the other. It only becomes mutually exclusive at the point you claim POSITIVE KNOWLEDGE. If you DO KNOW who DID do it, it then becomes impossible to NOT KNOW who DID NOT do it. You know that your neighbor DID do it, therefore you MUST KNOW that everyone else, real or imagined, DID NOT do it.
Of course, you may be wrong either way. But in this case there has never been any evidence at any time whatsoever to even remotely suggest that magic is real. That magic is not real is therefore a reasonable assumption. Since the claims involving God are magical claims, when one reasonably assumes magic is not real, one can reasonably assume that God is not real. Contrary to what you would like to believe, this is a very reasonable assumption. I'm not going out on a limb here to make a wild, unfounded claim. There is no reason to believe in magic and, therefore, no reason to accept magical claims. So it is reasonable to dismiss magic as the cause of the universe, even if you obfuscate the fact that you are talking about magic by using the word "god" as a proper noun and pretending it has nothing whatsoever to do with magic.
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