The Ultimate Value and the signs of it in ourselves.

[Mystic]

Can we make something valuable to us without believing in inherent value? We can, but it would have no justification and we would be in paradox:

See the thread:  https://atheistforums.org/thread-15323-p...#pid355134

Strawberries are not inherently delicious.  Would that make someone finding strawberries delicious paradoxical?

When it comes to the taste of your soul, though, I do agree it requires one who tastes it, but is our own taste or others taste of it, what defines its taste?

What I mean by that, is Sadam thinks he maybe an Arab hero, he has a concept of himself, others are of multiple visions, these are all perceptions of who he is in one sense, but they are not in agreement.

So when it comes to taste of strawberry, how we taste is real.... it's nothing we can do about it. Our opinion on that taste and how we enjoy, I do believe free-will plays a part as well as our mood on that day, and exactly what we ate or didn't eat near that time can have influence.

When we think of ourselves, do we just experience who we are like strawberries or are we making a measurement according to standards we believe in? What are those standards and where do they come from?

Can we just make our own standards as we go? Or is it like a spiritual tongue that has a taste? If it's the latter,  what is based upon? If the former, how are we making it, in case of tongue we have something that makes us taste things along with conversion thing by our brains....but what is the taster and converter with respect to personhood?

We change our minds often, we change standards throughout our lives, change our views, we are in flux.... and all this is used to "taste" ourselves and others.....

So what I'm saying, is when we do so we believe there are objective standards and objective value, and we do so to estimate those.

A good example is the Night of Qadr. We can't make it worth a thousand months without believing it is. We may not value it according to it's true worth but for us to value more than other times, we have to have some sort of thought that it's likely or there is a good chance or it is better than a thousand months!

We can't make ourselves better than everyone else by simply convincing ourselves we are.

There is a real measurement to who we are, and we try to estimate it. 

We can't even make relative measurements to who we are, inaccurate ones, without belief there is an actual value.

In the case of strawberries, we know they have properties which our tongue converts to taste....

When perceiving ourselves, what is the converter of properties of ourselves or others, that we attempt to convert and our mind perceives things, and what are the properties being converted?

Let's continue with this important discussion....but one suggestion, that is let's all try to be honest about this issue as well!