RE: The undeniable miracle at Fatima
August 11, 2017 at 2:12 pm
(This post was last modified: August 11, 2017 at 2:20 pm by pabsta.)
(August 10, 2017 at 4:21 pm)Brian37 Wrote:(August 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So tens of thousands of people coming from all different parts of the country collaborated to fabricate this lie about seeing a moving sun, all before cell phones and the internet existed?
It was a visionary thing caused by a supernatural phenomenon - a miracle. Not caused by optical illusion or mental illness/delusion.
No, that is not what we are arguing.
10s of thousands did show up sure. But thousands and thousands of people go to Vegas to see Penn and Teller catch a bullet in their mouth or saw a lady in half. Most Penn and Teller fans know it is just an illusion, but many also think they really are defying science, but they admit themselves they are not.
A few were in on it sure, and 10s of thousand of gullible people merely wanted to believe it. Again there are millions worldwide who believe all sorts of claims you may not buy yourself. Vampires, Big Foot, Loc Ness, chupacabra(sp).
Now again, if you do your research you are cherry picking because not all of the people that showed up were buying it. Out of those 10s of thousands I doubt seriously it was 100% all accepting it.
This is really no different than knowing that a long time ago most of the world's population falsely believed the earth was flat.
Yes, lots of people showed up, so? Lots of people go into a Mosque and think Allah is real, how is it you dont if it is all a numbers and popularity game?
I am sorry you bought it but again, it still amounts to you merely wanting to believe it. The sun in reality does not behave like the claimants claimed.
Dont just read the apologists part of this article, go down to the "Critics" section and read that too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun
Brian 37,
You admit tens of thousands showed up. They wouldn't have gone there if the children had not mentioned the miracle 3 months earlier. Then thousands of testimonials confirm they all saw something at the SAME time. It's embarrassing that you are trying to equate that to individual people claiming they saw Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster. And you're not going to convince anyone that something just HAPPENED to occur at the same time and location the children stated, but that was just coincidental. Yeah right.
You and others in this discussion have also tried to claim that other people who showed up at Fatima that day didn't see with the others saw. READ the testimonials - many people were asked if they knew of anyone else who was present that didn't see anything. ALL ANSWERS to this question were NO. Saying other people there didn't see the same thing is a false claim that the atheists love to throw out there and it is baseless. Rather, the book "Meet the Witnesses" confirms otherwise.
The text under the critics section of the Wikipedia article is EMBARRASSING. The writer actually tries to make excuses for what could have happened with the sun and clouds that day (admitting something happened), and completely fails to take into account that all testimonials unanimously confirmed that everyone's clothes and the ground dried within minutes which CONFIRMS that SOMETHING DID HAPPEN WITH THE SUN. This completely lays to waste the entire critics section.
The atheist reasoning in this forum is getting more and more pathetic as the days pass.
(August 10, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote:(August 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So tens of thousands of people coming from all different parts of the country collaborated to fabricate this lie about seeing a moving sun, all before cell phones and the internet existed?Again, you are desperate to believe the story put out by the church. You do understand that in any fish story the fish always gets bigger, right?
Who counted the crowd, btw? Donald Trump? We know what his ability to judge a crowd size is. I doubt they sold tickets.
Story put out by the Church? The story was initially put out by MULTIPLE NEWSPAPERS which confirmed an incident happened pertaining to the sun. Those newspapers at the time were controlled by atheist revolutionists who took over the country seven years earlier. Do you think they REALLY wanted to admit the incident? Secondly, the story was then put out by the PEOPLE of Portugal. It was not until 13 years of research that the Catholic Church publicly confirmed it.
As for how many were at Fatima that day, it is irrelevant. Whether it was 10,000 or 100,000, if you have that many testimonials, then you know SOMETHING happened.
