(August 9, 2017 at 11:17 am)pabsta Wrote: Go ahead and put the words "stigmatized haunted property lawsuit" (not necessarily in that order) into Google and you will see the stigmatized (haunted) house law is very real. But nice try anyway guys!

It is not up to us to do your research for you. Please cite the relevant passage in Black's.

(August 10, 2017 at 3:24 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't see how that makes much sense either. If it was merely a complete delusion and not real at all in any sort of way, then it is quite a coincidence that tens of thousands of people had the same delusion at the same time. I don't see how that is realistic.

I agree but I'm upset you never gave kudos to my post explaining where the real story came from.

Quote: Just seems like too many coincidences for it to be realistic, imho.

Seems like more lies than coincidences.  Once you dismiss the church's tale there isn't much there.

(August 9, 2017 at 11:28 am)pabsta Wrote: Another fact that atheists want to avoid is the subject of Jacinta from Fatima being found incorrupt. Another proof for the supernatural that leaves atheists standing there with wide eyes, especially when they realize there is physical proof they can go see themselves. Always demanding proof, but they won't put the remote control down and get off the couch and go see them, afraid of what they might find.

Details:
http://overcomeproblems.com/incorruptibles.htm

I note that the site linked to only does close ups of recently dead people, when the technology to preserve dead flesh is much better. I wonder why this is?

Is it because what the rcc wants people to think their idea "incorruptible" is what most normal people associate with that word when it is not (frankly what the church holds as "incorruptible" is any dead body they've lucked into mummifying, or more recently, mummified deliberately using preservatives)? Or is it because pabsta is a lying piece of shit who knows the site is also a lying piece of shit and hoping it'll fly under the radar?

I'll let the people decide.

(August 10, 2017 at 3:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote: Just seems like too many coincidences for it to be realistic, imho.

Seems like more lies than coincidences.  Once you dismiss the church's tale there isn't much there.

So tens of thousands of people coming from all different parts of the country collaborated to fabricate this lie about seeing a moving sun, all before cell phones and the internet existed?

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(August 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm)Cyberman Wrote: So it wasn't just a visionary thing?

It was a visionary thing caused by a supernatural phenomenon - a miracle. Not caused by optical illusion or mental illness/delusion.

(August 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 10, 2017 at 3:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Seems like more lies than coincidences.  Once you dismiss the church's tale there isn't much there.

So tens of thousands of people coming from all different parts of the country collaborated to fabricate this lie about seeing a moving sun, all before cell phones and the internet existed?

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(August 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm)Cyberman Wrote: So it wasn't just a visionary thing?

It was a visionary thing caused by a supernatural phenomenon - a miracle. Not caused by optical illusion or mental illness/delusion.

No, that is not what we are arguing.

10s of thousands did show up sure. But thousands and thousands of people go to Vegas to see Penn and Teller catch a bullet in their mouth or saw a lady in half. Most Penn and Teller fans know it is just an illusion, but many also think they really are defying science, but they admit themselves they are not. 

A few were in on it sure, and 10s of thousand of gullible people merely wanted to believe it. Again there are millions worldwide who believe all sorts of claims you may not buy yourself. Vampires, Big Foot, Loc Ness, chupacabra(sp).

Now again, if you do your research you are cherry picking because not all of the people that showed up were buying it. Out of those 10s of thousands I doubt seriously it was 100% all accepting it. 

This is really no different than knowing that a long time ago most of the world's population falsely believed the earth was flat.

Yes, lots of people showed up, so? Lots of people go into a Mosque and think Allah is real, how is it you dont if it is all a numbers and popularity game?

I am sorry you bought it but again, it still amounts to you merely wanting to believe it. The sun in reality does not behave like the claimants claimed.

Dont just read the apologists part of this article, go down to the "Critics" section and read that too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

(August 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 10, 2017 at 3:59 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Seems like more lies than coincidences.  Once you dismiss the church's tale there isn't much there.

So tens of thousands of people coming from all different parts of the country collaborated to fabricate this lie about seeing a moving sun, all before cell phones and the internet existed?

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Again, you are desperate to believe the story put out by the church.  You do understand that in any fish story the fish always gets bigger, right?
Who counted the crowd, btw?  Donald Trump?  We know what his ability to judge a crowd size is.  I doubt they sold tickets.

(August 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm)Cyberman Wrote: So it wasn't just a visionary thing?

It was a visionary thing caused by a supernatural phenomenon - a miracle. Not caused by optical illusion or mental illness/delusion.

A visionary thing that caused puddles and wet clothes to dry? What is this, Superman's heat vision?

BTW, there is a website which contains an archive of NY Times stories.  For October of 1917 out of hundreds of stories listed - and the world was at war so there was plenty of international news - there was not a single story about this alleged "miracle."  No mention of Fatima.  Not even any mention of Portugal.

(August 10, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(August 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So tens of thousands of people coming from all different parts of the country collaborated to fabricate this lie about seeing a moving sun, all before cell phones and the internet existed?

---

Again, you are desperate to believe the story put out by the church.  You do understand that in any fish story the fish always gets bigger, right?
Who counted the crowd, btw?  Donald Trump?  We know what his ability to judge a crowd size is.  I doubt they sold tickets.

Good point. There are pictures of the event, but sure, unless there was a recorded head count, and everyone was simply guessing that could falsely spread too.

The original War Of the Worlds radio show caused mass panic because the producers did little to nothing to let people know it wasn't a real broadcast.

There was a made for TV drama back in the 80s, not "The Day After", but another Nuclear strike theme, where they did it as a News Program, but then they warned everyone going in to each segment that it was just a show.

The power of suggestion can lead people to believe false things even have false memories.