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[Quranic Reflection]: moon absorbed by the sun in the Quran: far future.
RE: [Quranic Reflection]: moon absorbed by the sun in the Quran: far future.
(December 17, 2020 at 5:37 pm)Apollo Wrote: Or he could be lying or it could be a combination of schizophrenia in part and lying.  

I am not sure a schizophrenic person can unite Arabia under one flag and convince military leaders to leave their families -even fight their families - for his cause. Maybe you want to elaborate on that and quote some specific event in his life to support this diagnosis.

A liar can't sustain his lie for this long. Especially, as it is the case with Muhammad, when every detail of his life is scrutinized and recordeed. We have reports of his wife catching him crying during prayer, descriptions of his sleep position, what hand he eats with, his reaction when they accused his wife of having an affair, and many many mundane details about his everyday life, Everything Muslims say during prayer is a verbatim copy of what Muhammad said when performing it.

(December 17, 2020 at 5:37 pm)Apollo Wrote: But the "Outside agent" is not a possibility.

If a God exists, nothing is impossible (unless it's logically impossible), and definitely not an angel.

(December 17, 2020 at 5:37 pm)Apollo Wrote: People who still insist have to first and foremost provide explanation as to how this "outside agent" can exist (what is he made of etc –– since for it to be able to interact with our reality it needs to be made up of the particles within the current standard model) and how such communication can occur (again, standard model, four forces of nature etc or else it can't interact with our reality).

I am not sure I follow you here. It's not hard for an all powerful deity to hack the standard model and put an angel somewhere, or make it invisible to our finest detectors. Sure, the burden of proof is on us, about whether Muhammad met an outside agent or made it all up. Our argument is, everything we have and know about him doesn't square at all with a liar would do. And we really know a lot about him. In other words, his biography is better explained if he were sincere than if he were not.

But you're free to attempt to prove otherwise. I'm just warning you that a lot of very competent historians already investigated his Sira' and reached the same conclusion, as long as they accept oral transmission as a valid means of preserving his sayings.

(December 17, 2020 at 5:37 pm)Apollo Wrote:
  1. Possible
  2. Not possible
  3. We don't know if possible or not possible
The existence of any "outside agent" (angel, god, what have you) falls under the category of #2.  If you think it's rather #1 then please, by all means, explain away with relevant math and cosmic model.

The existence of god is supported by other arguments entirely, not the prophecy of Muhammad. The teleological argument is very compelling, as I explained in my other thread (absurd need for logical proofs).

Now, if a just god exists, one of the religion surely has to be genuine. If the smallest particle in the universe follows instructions (that is, laws of physics), it's impossible for human beings not to have ones.

Islam, in my (informed) opinion, is not only the closest to be the right religion, it's actually the only religion. No other religion simultaneously endorses strict monotheism and gives a coherent idea of an afterlife, a necessary element to fulfill the property of justness of God.
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RE: [Quranic Reflection]: moon absorbed by the sun in the Quran: far future. - by R00tKiT - December 17, 2020 at 6:51 pm

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