(November 19, 2023 at 3:04 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Right, and the church didn't shit on discovery because it thought that the discoverers were wrong, but because they worried that they couldn't shit on the uneducated peasants if they conceded.
I have no idea what that confused sentence is even referring to. When did the Church "shit on discovery"?
Quote:Silly atheists.
Some, certainly.
Quote:Anywho, I'm not sure I can sign on with this idea that agrarian laborers don't need to be educated.
Didn't need. In pre-modern times. Obviously in modern times, as literacy became an essential skill, they did need to be, Because many things had changed. But a medieval farmer did not need to be literate in the way a late nineteenth century farmer did.
Quote:A big...biiiig problem..for all of our history, is that they haven't been. We certainly don't tell any of our agrarian children that they should just work the land like their ancestors - like I did, like my dad did, like my granddad did so on and so forth ad infinitum..... because we know better.
We don't do that because we no longer live in a pre-modern agrarian society. See above.
Quote: Hence the extension and land grant systems. The two big issues when I got into this were return entry intervals and irrigation. The biggest social gains in the medieval period came from precisely that. Those peasants were agrarian modernizers and for much of that time they had to drag their silly church along kicking and screaming.
Ummm, the Church was a major landowner and was actually at the forefront of all medieval developments of agrarian technology as a result. What evidence is there of it needing to be "dragged along screaming and kicking"?
Quote:Because the church was invested in the status quo that privleged them, not the one that liberated their serfs.
Again, evidence please. Like any landowners of the time, churchmen were most interested in what made their land most productive and increased their income.
