RE: The Kalam Cosmological argument.
January 6, 2024 at 6:45 am
(This post was last modified: January 6, 2024 at 6:46 am by Belacqua.)
(January 6, 2024 at 6:05 am)JJoseph Wrote: Hi Bel. Ok. Let them research and see whether or not the Universe had a beginning.
Open Source Wikipedia says: "According to the Big Bang models, the universe at the beginning was very hot and very compact, and since then it has been expanding and cooling." The Universe certainly had a beginning. I am aware for a while they said it was around 13.5 BN years ago, now they're saying somewhere double of that, around 26 BN years ago. So be it. What existed 30 BN years ago, then?
If nothing, then ex nihil, nihil fit, which means, out of nothing, nothing comes, then even now, nothing would exist.
Therefore, it isn't true that nothing ever existed. What is true is that, nothing material existed then. And therefore ...
Saint Thomas Aquinas: "Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing."
Yeah, the physicists I've read on the topic seem ambiguous at best. When they say that "something" has come from "nothing," it always turns out that the "nothing" was really something. For example, the laws of nature were just hanging around in such a way that the Big Bang could get up and running. But to me, the laws of nature are something, not nothing. Krauss's book is really bad on this. "We don't know" seems like the best conclusion so far.
So when people talk about the Big Bang as the beginning, it may be that they mean the beginning of the universe as it now exists -- not the beginning of everything. Which doesn't rule out a God-like creator. Though of course none of the science-only people will be happy with that explanation.
Part of the problem with discussions like this is that so many people think of God as being thing-like. A physically existing thing which we could find if we knew where to look, which ought to be detectable by science. Of course the God of the A/T version is nothing like that. (I don't know what Kalam posits -- as you know it has supporters among both Christians and Muslims, but I don't think Kalam alone is sufficient to get us to the God of the Bible or of the Koran.)