Non-existence

[Jon Paul]

Yet in point of fact it does ... for the many reasons I have already given:

You think I care if it's complete different from what *you* said???? You think I give a rats arse about your metaphysical posturing? Seriously? You and I don't speak the same language, we talk past each other and the only reason I keep on at you is, I suppose, because I can ... I don't understand your mind and genuinely don't want to, you think in ways that make absolutely no sense to me (not in the sense that I can't understand it, more that I don't get it ... in a philosophical sense if you wish). Oh, don't make the mistake of thinking that implies you are right, it doesn't I'm advancing the only point that matters to me ... that a virtual universe opf any description would necessarily be more complex than one that was real and judging from your continued retreat into hyper-bollocks I consider my point well made, you don't appear to be able to deal with it.

Let me say it to you again, since you are apparently having some problems understanding (I'll list it point-wise to make it a little clearer):

• If you have a scenario (and I likened this to a computer and it's operating system) it has two basic layers of complexity, the real universe (physical or hardware) and my view of it (my mind or an OS). That is 2 levels of complexity.
  
• If that scenario is virtualised it needs, somewhere, something or someone to host it (to run the scenario, to make it work correctly etc. etc.) and that support has to have its own operating system or mind PLUS its own physical support. That's another 2 levels ... even if you assume (as I'm sure you would) that it is unsupported it's still 1 level.

In other words, in order to virtualise our universe, either as a dream or a simulation (regardless of whether we can detect anything or not) someone or something has to be or to build something more complex ... a 4 (at best for you a 3) layer model because, even if the support layers were less complex in themselves they are still supporting the exact same level of complexity of our universe therefore IN TOTO, we have a more complex scenario.

As I said before the whole virtualised system must necessarily be more complex than the basic physical universe because it not only has to run the simulation it has to run itself!!!!!!

IOW, bringing it back to my original point, a physical universe is simpler therefore an assumption that I the universe is real is more logical than not.

Rhizomorph sufficiently answered your vain allegories.

But Kyu,

Dagda birthed his idea about the non-existence of the universe, I labeled it solipsism, and here we are talking about that very thing.

JP is right in his assertion that solipsism is a simpler reality than an actual physical universe because it does not accept that anything is real except the "mind" which is a disembodied thing, in the solipsist reality, that has no nead of a brain to perceive anything. No interactions, no system, and no OS because not even the brain that contains the mind is considered [im]provable.

I think we all agree that it is not a valuable reality and certainly proves nothing.

Rhizo