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Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'?
#84
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'?
Darwinian, I'm enjoying this debate. You say: 'It's not that it's unappealing, it's just that it makes no sense'. There are many things that are counter intuative. If space or matter didn't have anyone create them, then why can't an intelligent designer have not had a creator? I do understand yours and Evidence's reasonings about this. I just don't get bothered by the so called complexity of such a creator. It is mind boggling to think there might be an intelligence that started all this but I can't ignore the markers (molecules, space, us etc) pointing towards the real possiblitiy that such an Intelligence exists. Why must God 'be complicated beyond belief'? All creatures are limited to what they can understand. If there is a creator then it stands to reason we would not be able to 'understand' how great He is etc. A dog can't understand things about his master and so too with us maybe?? I am not concerning myself with just who this God is. The God of the Bible (OT and NT) can be off putting I agree, hence why I have my doubts about that. I'm not worried which God He is. If He is really there then He knows why I doubt and the onus is on Him to sort that out. I do however believe He would stand for all things good, hence why I try to do the 'right thing' e.g turn the other cheek when someone pisses me off, or help my neighbour when I know they'll try to take advantage. Stuff like that. I've never thought of God as just 'willing stuff into existence'. He's not a conjurer who makes stuff appear out of nothing. Physical stuff, or natural stuff must come from somewhere (I imagine from God Himself). Which brings me to Evidence vs Faith's comments:'God is supernatural therefore he goes completely against the laws of the universe as there is no evidence of him (or anything supernatural)'. Just maybe we have got the wrong idea about supernatural. I believe it is natural only 'different' (I'm struggling for the right word- I'm enjoying a well earned glass of wine having been up since half five and spent all day cleaning etc and it's gone to my head). If He made the laws of the universe then He will hardly go against them. I'll quit now before I get tipsy.
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"

Albert Einstein
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Messages In This Thread
Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 29, 2008 at 5:35 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Jason Jarred - October 29, 2008 at 6:12 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 30, 2008 at 4:36 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - October 30, 2008 at 5:29 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - October 30, 2008 at 5:36 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 30, 2008 at 8:11 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - October 30, 2008 at 8:35 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 30, 2008 at 8:46 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - October 30, 2008 at 9:34 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 30, 2008 at 10:08 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - October 30, 2008 at 10:36 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - October 30, 2008 at 5:34 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 30, 2008 at 3:40 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - October 30, 2008 at 5:26 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 2, 2008 at 5:50 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - November 3, 2008 at 5:10 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 31, 2008 at 3:28 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - October 31, 2008 at 6:03 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2008 at 7:54 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - October 31, 2008 at 12:50 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2008 at 1:46 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by bozo - October 31, 2008 at 5:07 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 1, 2008 at 9:49 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - November 1, 2008 at 4:05 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 2, 2008 at 5:59 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2008 at 8:01 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Kyuuketsuki - November 3, 2008 at 9:56 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2008 at 10:23 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Kyuuketsuki - November 5, 2008 at 5:51 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2008 at 11:02 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Kyuuketsuki - November 7, 2008 at 9:29 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - November 2, 2008 at 7:27 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 3, 2008 at 3:42 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 3, 2008 at 10:48 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2008 at 11:22 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 3, 2008 at 12:12 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2008 at 12:16 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 3, 2008 at 12:32 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - November 3, 2008 at 6:24 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - November 3, 2008 at 1:12 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 3, 2008 at 1:18 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 4, 2008 at 5:29 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 5, 2008 at 3:28 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 5, 2008 at 4:18 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 5, 2008 at 5:15 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 5, 2008 at 5:13 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 5, 2008 at 6:23 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 5, 2008 at 7:55 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 6, 2008 at 9:14 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by chatpilot - November 6, 2008 at 11:55 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 6, 2008 at 12:14 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - November 6, 2008 at 1:16 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 6, 2008 at 8:23 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Jason Jarred - November 6, 2008 at 9:05 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Kyuuketsuki - November 7, 2008 at 9:56 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Jason Jarred - November 6, 2008 at 6:12 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 6, 2008 at 7:59 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by bozo - November 6, 2008 at 8:15 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Kyuuketsuki - November 7, 2008 at 9:35 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 7, 2008 at 9:46 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 6, 2008 at 1:37 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - November 6, 2008 at 8:50 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 6, 2008 at 9:44 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - November 7, 2008 at 5:06 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Kyuuketsuki - November 7, 2008 at 10:03 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Jason Jarred - November 8, 2008 at 3:35 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Daystar - November 8, 2008 at 10:54 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - November 7, 2008 at 4:12 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 7, 2008 at 8:11 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 7, 2008 at 9:31 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 7, 2008 at 10:00 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - November 7, 2008 at 10:03 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 7, 2008 at 10:04 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - November 7, 2008 at 10:16 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by bozo - November 8, 2008 at 4:22 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 7, 2008 at 10:07 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by chatpilot - November 7, 2008 at 11:17 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 7, 2008 at 3:34 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 7, 2008 at 4:01 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 7, 2008 at 4:53 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 7, 2008 at 5:51 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 9:51 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 12:28 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 2:26 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 3:35 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - November 8, 2008 at 2:51 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 3:06 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 3:09 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 3:16 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 3:26 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 8, 2008 at 4:17 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 3:46 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 3:49 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 4:02 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 4:11 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 4:21 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 8, 2008 at 4:24 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 4:23 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 4:30 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Darwinian - November 8, 2008 at 4:44 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 4:52 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 4:56 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 4:58 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Tiberius - November 8, 2008 at 5:04 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 5:07 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 8, 2008 at 5:17 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 8, 2008 at 5:34 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 9, 2008 at 1:26 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 9, 2008 at 2:57 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - November 10, 2008 at 5:42 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 9, 2008 at 9:54 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 10, 2008 at 3:47 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 10, 2008 at 9:05 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - November 10, 2008 at 9:18 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 10, 2008 at 1:00 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 11, 2008 at 7:08 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 11, 2008 at 1:03 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 11, 2008 at 3:36 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 13, 2008 at 10:42 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by leo-rcc - November 13, 2008 at 11:19 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 13, 2008 at 12:34 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by chatpilot - November 14, 2008 at 11:06 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 14, 2008 at 11:48 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by allan175 - November 14, 2008 at 11:55 am
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by CoxRox - November 14, 2008 at 3:23 pm
RE: Is 'faith' really a 'great cop-out'? - by Edwardo Piet - November 14, 2008 at 7:41 pm

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