The Case for Theism

[Drew_2013]

I have done so, its not my goal to persuade atheists, just make a reasonable case to justify my belief.

And therein lies the problem, my deluded little friend. You are starting out with a belief and then looking for evidence to bolster or support that belief. That isn't how the game works.

Actually like many I was brought up in Catholicism which I loathed. Then when I moved out from my parents I discarded any religious belief including belief in the existence of God. Then in my late 20's I re-examined the issue and wondered about my own existence, the existence of others and the existence of the universe and how it is we came about and ultimately came to the belief that we owe our existence to a Creator. Its an opinion, I could be wrong but I think it is the better explanation.

Then I would question how seriously you really ponder this issue. This issue we are debating is about how we as a people came into existence and how the universe that allows our existence came about. There are two lines of reasoning; we came about by some naturalistic process that wasn't by intention or design but just happened to have happened or we came about intentionally by design by some Creator who caused our existence.

No matter how many times you say that, you're still wrong. I've shown you why.

Any rational person including most atheists think we're either the result of plan and design by a personal agent or were the unintended result of some naturalistic process that didn't plan or intend us to exist. I don't think even you believe otherwise.

You're quite right, neither of them should be believed by default, nor should any of the other multitude of possibilities you've closed your mind to. The problem we're having is that you are assuming that, by dint of disagreeing with your accepted belief, we are necessarily believing in the opposite. This is not only wrong, it's downright rude, given how many times this has been pointed out to you.

That's rich an atheist calling me rude. Lets see if we can settle this once and for all. Do you believe (not do you know of theories) that our existence and that of the universe is the result of or exists in some other fashion that is neither the result of plan and design or some unguided naturalistic process that unintentionally resulted in our existence?

There's a third answer even in your false dichotomy, Drew. Saying "I do not believe in your claims about a created universe," does not trap us into the claim "I believe the universe was created from unguided methods." The option most of us slip to is "I don't know yet, and despite your claims otherwise, neither do you." It's entirely possible to just be waiting for more conclusive evidence than you're providing, you know.

Speaking for yourself you can claim that being an atheist just means you don't know or you're ignorant. But your mistaken if you think thats what the majority of atheists think and I could take a survey to prove it. The vast majority of atheists will claim to be nearly certain no God was involved in the cause of the universe because according to them there is no God, God doesn't exist. They will concede they're not certain how the universe came about or how life came about but they are extremely confident that some naturalistic unguided mindless method unintentionally caused the universe and life to exist and eventually this will be confirmed. I suspect that is what you actually believe but you prefer to pettifog the issue.