RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 9, 2013 at 7:20 pm
(This post was last modified: July 9, 2013 at 7:22 pm by bennyboy.)
(July 9, 2013 at 7:04 pm)Rhythm Wrote:I don't need to assume fairies. I already have the mind, which is already indetectable by anyone but me. And I don't need to assume it; I take my experience of it as sufficient, since experience alone is sufficient to prove it.(July 9, 2013 at 6:48 pm)bennyboy Wrote: The problem is that you can only detect physical processes. The whole process of using science to study mind is a giant question-begging one, because you already accept that mind is a physical process.
That's not much of a problem at all. Assume fairies in the case of the mind-no...really, assume them, and it won't matter. Determinism isn't a position on whether or not you're a clock or a golem. It's interested in how the clock or golem behaves. It's not even a position on -why- or -how- things behave in such a manner.
Your point is a good one, though. It's certainly possible that the mind is deterministic; the popular idea here seems to be that it's the experience of brain function, not some kind of 2-way bridge between physical process and something else. Why a deterministic process is accompanied by a subjective perspective is another issue.
But I don't even need to invoke mind to have philosophical doubts about determinism. To prove determinism, you have to show clearly that for any given state of the universe at a time t, you couldn't possibly have had a different outcome at time t+1. This is impossible for obvious reasons.
(July 9, 2013 at 6:54 pm)little_monkey Wrote: Another post that was predictable.
Oh sure, you say that AFTER I made it. Now, if you can predict my NEXT post, I'll be very impressed.