RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 20, 2013 at 8:02 am
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2013 at 8:13 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 19, 2013 at 2:45 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Fate is the idea that all roads lead to Rome, basically. So no matter what decisions I (freely) make, I cannot avoid arriving at a certain state.No matter what you do or don't do, even if you are a rock, regardless of whether or not you have the "ability" to make decisions. That's why fate is non-deterministic. Rather than stating that for any specific set of circumstances t, t+1 is the only outcome..fate states that regardless of the specific circumstances of t, some event x will happen.
Quote:Determinism is a belief in a single causal chain. So despite my apparent freedom of choice, actually all my behaviors are simply a response by my brain to various stimuli (including its own memory, as well as new sensations). I'd call this "hard fatalism,"Then you'd be wrong, unless we were looking to create a new set of definitions for the sake of discussion. At which point I'd call you a newt. Fatalism is the position that regardless of whether or not you have free will (in the model of fatalism you -could- be "freely making choices") it's all for naught - you're merely stuck flowing towards an inevitable outcome. It has nothing to do with whatever you think your brain does or choices are.
Quote:because it means that everything that has ever happened, or ever will, is set in stone, rather than just certain crucial moments.That's not fatalism -or- determinism.......-as stated. It is not determinism because determinism cannot ignore (and is defined by) -all- the "crucial moments". It is not fatalism as fatalism is not the position that something is set in stone - but that you are incapable of affecting whatever will occur. Depending on what you might point to as the origin of this setting in stone what you are discussing now is probably predetermination /predistination.
Quote:As for "existence," I think you're wrong on that point. Nothing can really be created: there is just a stream from state to state. All the physical circumstances and "participants" have always existed, or determinism is necessarily false.Lets run that through the meat grinder then.
-You and I must have always existed...or determinism is necessarily false-
I don't know bud.....doesn't seem like were on to anything with this one.
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