RE: Determinism Is Self Defeating
July 20, 2013 at 9:53 pm
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2013 at 9:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 20, 2013 at 7:01 pm)bennyboy Wrote: It has everything to do with free will. Because unless you are introducing ANOTHER mechanism for non-determinism, we are in fact talking about free will vs. determinism. If you think there is another mechanism, please feel free to introduce it.I'm not introducing any mechanisms, I'm simply elucidating the subtleties between these sometimes contradictory positions which you've lumped together under the label "determinism".
Quote:It's most definitely determinism. If determinism is true, then everything that will happen after now is already determined, i.e. set in stone.Sigh, no...that would be predetermination.
Quote:Fatalism is like the steerable cars at a Disneyland ride I remember. You can turn the steering wheel to go back and forth a little, but the car is still getting pulled around on a track.That's a pretty good analogy for fatalism, yeah.
Quote:Physics isn't about you. You are a conceptual label for an uncountable number of particles vibrating in space according to the rules of the universe. Unless you are asserting that the assembly of particles into a human being adds something new to the universe that wasn't there before, then attaching a label onto a particular collection of particles doesn't really say anything about determinism. So no, just because some particles have taken on the name "bennyboy" doesn't (in the physical monist/determinist) model, mean anything new has been created; it was inevitable that the particles called "bennyboy" would be so assembled, and so called.Inevitability =/= actuality. It has nothing to do with whether or not physics revolves around me, the way you arranged that statement was dismal. You're still trying to saddle determinism with extraneous baggage, and I'm calling heinous bullshit on that.
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