RE: From atheism to Christianity? How so?
December 27, 2013 at 4:42 am
(This post was last modified: December 27, 2013 at 5:01 am by agapelove.)
(December 27, 2013 at 2:55 am)Esquilax Wrote: I always find it strange when, as an atheist, I'm told to pray to get the evidence I require, because generally speaking that suggestion is configured in some strange ways. First of all, I'd say that one only has reason to pray if they're expecting an answer, and hence an atheist, looking for evidence of a god, has no reason to pray in the first place. This is because prayer, and all the personal experience excuses that come bundled with it, aren't evidence or information at all; becoming convinced in your head that something is real doesn't constitute a cogent argument. It's just being convinced of something; and you already know this, because you discount the prayers of anyone who isn't praying to your god as mistaken, don't you? Those guys are equally convinced that their prayers are a method of communing with gods you don't think exist; why would you think an atheist would be compelled to consider your god the special exemption to that, sufficient to pray to it in the first place?
I can understand your position; why should you pray to Jesus and not the flying spaghetti monster? I think it's an interesting question because I believe there are compelling reasons to consider praying to Jesus above and beyond any other religious claim.
So, why pray to Jesus? Well, one evidence is that what Jesus said about Himself is reflected in the world today. We can see that there has never been anyone more famous and influential on the world than Jesus. He has influenced this planet more than any other person by a wide margin. If you could only pick one name as to who has been the prime mover of the last 2000 years, it would be Jesus Christ. That fact alone makes His words worth considering. Our entire historical perspective turns over a manger in Bethlehem. If Jesus is who He said He is, we should expect to see that kind of influence over world history. So, I think that in itself bears testing the waters by saying a short prayer.
To answer the question of why pray to Jesus in the first place, the answer is that this is the only method which is guaranteed any results. It is the only method Jesus recommended we undertake to reach Him. So, if you are looking for evidence that Jesus is God, this is the best way to investigate it. There is really no other method that is worth considering because it is the only method which could possibly work.
I can understand if anyone disagrees with what I've said..I am sure you could poke holes in it if you tried. But as far as risk/reward goes, it doesn't get any better than that. There is no risk and infinite reward. If it isn't true nothing will happen. But if it is true He will let you know it.
(December 27, 2013 at 12:45 am)Ksa Wrote: It was addressed to his disciples, not to you. Not to the reader of the Bible. Imagine I tell my mother "turn off the cooler please." and someone writes down what I told my mother and goes to my workplace in a nuclear station and says "Ksa said to turn off the cooler", so they disable the cooling system and the reactor explodes.
Those words of Jesus were not addressed to a guy in 2013 with a high IQ, they were addressed to an IDIOT from 2,000 years ago who couldn't understand what Jesus was saying.
The reason the disciples couldn't understand what Jesus was saying is because they hadn't yet received the Holy Spirit. You'll notice that after they receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 they are preaching sermons and no longer confused about what Jesus was talking about. His words are for all people at all times:
John 17:20 "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
John 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
He was praying for all believers in all times, those who would believe in Jesus through the word they preached, which He had given them. He even told us directly what He was talking about when He explained his parables in Mark 4 and other places. He gave us words that everyone could understand, yet they are deeper than anyone has ever found out. That is the multifaceted nature of His teaching. What do you make of this verse?
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
message me if you would like prayer
message me if you would like prayer