Debate with a Christian

[*Deidre*]

I would like to see the debate be with Pickup...

There's really no debate to be had, at least not one that I can see would be very worthwhile. He believes we can not only determine the probability that a genuine miracle occurred based a few accounts (written by Christian missionaries no less) but more over, that we can interpret these experiences merely on the opinions of the first-century non-skeptical illiterates who had them. Why not just debate if Big foot exists instead?

lol Exactly. That's why I decided it's not worth the effort. I'm pretty open minded but not willing to have a one sided debate, meaning...I'm the only one providing valid objective evidence while the other party relies on his opinions, religious notions, and the Bible.

Yea. Um. No.

But, should you dare...good luck.

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Curious...
It jumps.

Of that particular collection of books, I know enough to dismiss it as mostly fiction, yes.
I mean, really...
- bringing dead people back to life?
- Producing multiples of bread and fish without extra flour nor actual fishing?
- Healing an incurable (at the time) disease?
- Walking on water?
- A person lashed, nailed to a pole and stabbed... somehow survives?

Does this belong in the History or fiction aisle?

When reading the Bible a person should always remember that he's reading an ethnocentric Jewish religious fairy tale that uses a lot of metaphors. If a reader doesn't consider the metaphors he will miss the meaning of the story.

A spiritually dead person can be brought back to life if he repents and gives up his "sinful"habits. Consider the Prodigal Son story in Luke chapter 15. It ends with the father saying (Luke 15:32 CJB) = "We had to celebrate and rejoice, because this brother of yours was dead but has come back to life — he was lost but has been found.’”

In Matthew 22:29:32 is Jesus talking about the physically dead or the spiritually dead being resurrected? http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...B;CJB;NKJV

The two stories about the bread and fish feeding thousands are stories about hospitality and feeding the hungry. The Bible has countless stories about people throwing out the welcome mat for strangers and feeding and sheltering them. In these particular stories Jesus and his pals are out in the countryside with thousands of people far from the greasy spoons.

So everyone is getting hungry but Jesus and his pals only have enough for themselves. The crowds appear to be running on empty. The rules of hospitality required that you offer your guests food before you ate in their presence. So Jesus told his guys to walk out into the crowds with their lunch in plain sight and offer it to the people. Since there were thousands of people it was obvious that that was not a sustainable plan.

But what happened was that everyone had brought his own lunch, hidden in their dusty robes. Once the crowd saw that it was OK to bring out their own lunches they did and everyone chowed down. People did not go out in the countryside without taking something to eat. They might have been dumb but there was a limit to their stupidity. So in the end each person fed himself and some even had so much that there was a lot left over.

The story about walking on water is interesting because water is a metaphor for "truth". When Jesus walked on water he was being supported by the truth. Peter was able to walk on water for a few steps but then he failed. That ties in to the story about how he refused to acknowledge Jesus after Jesus was betrayed (Matthew chapter 26).

What do you think the stories about the incurable disease and crucifixion mean?

Metaphor is a kind way of saying nonsense, in religious speak. When it clearly sounds too fucked up to be believable...doh! Must be a metaphor.