Christianity: Don't Reason, Just Obey

[orangebox21]

Another important thing to note is that, when the bible says that, it is factually wrong.

Where have you been? I haven't seen you or your "dodgy eyes" in awhile.

The scripture in question deals with the heart/mind of another man. Given that I cannot see into the heart of another man I cannot prove this scripture true of my own authority. This is why I don't bring this scripture as an accusation against the members of the atheist forum. On the other hand, you have the same problem. In order to support your claim that the Bible is 'factually wrong' you take the position that: you are a man, you know there isn't a God, the Bible says all men know there is a God, therefore the Bible is factually inaccurate. The only proof you have is your word/authority. Serious question here: Why should I take your word for it? Can it be proven you're not lying to me?

Does the Bible teach that 'people need to accept it first?' Is belief a work of man, or a work of God? Is salvation a work of the will of man, or the will of God?

What odd questions. Man, obviously.

It's a means of determining if a person has an understanding of both the argument and the Biblical position.

Exactly. First you get admission into the school, and then, you start studying for the subjects. Imagine someone who studies engineering, but he's not admitted into the engineering program. Can he graduate or "be saved"? Naturally no.

First you accept the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ our Lord, and then you study his word. That's what Christianity is about. Blind acceptance.

You're criticizing the believer for doing the same thing the student does: First "acceptence", then studying (first you get admission, then you study/first you accept the teachings, then you study).

There is also something else you have overlooked. The person who is accepted into an engineering program presummably has a basic, if not moderate, knowledge of math, physics, language, etc. The engineering program allows the student to grow in and deepen their understanding of these subjects and how they apply specifically to engineering. In the same way the believer has a basic knowledge of Christian theology at the time of salvation. Their study then leads to a deeper understanding.

In your analogy, 'acceptance' would be salvation, 'graduation' would be sanctification. Not, graduation=saved.

If faith comes from hearing the word (Romans 10:17) and we are saved through faith, then a person must hear the word in order to have faith. The Bible doesn't teach 'blind acceptance.'

So Joyce Meyer has worked out that (her?) God is incapable of establishing a religion that can withstand critical review ??


Hmmm. Isn't there a verse in the Bible forbidding willful ignorance ???

I'm assuming your asking rhetorically but Romans 1:20, 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 1 Corinthians 14:20, and 1 Corinthians 13:11, are also example of how we are to think.

I'm not sure where you got this from, but you are simply wrong. Practicing Catholics are constantly in the Bible. I take it you've never been to mass where there are typically three readings. Typically there is one each from the OT, the epistles, and the gospel. I actually prefer this to the Bible hopscotch spewed by evangelicals.

Perhaps the explanation is in which Bible is used and who has the authority to interpret it.

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COUNCIL OF TRENT: FOURTH SESSION, DECREE CONCERNING THE CANONICAL SCRIPTURES:
And it has thought it meet that a list of the sacred books be inserted in this decree, lest a doubt may arise in any one's mind, which are the books that are received by this Synod. They are as set down here below: of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second. Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle. But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately condemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema."

"The Council of Trent also reiterated the Church's sole authority to interpret the Scriptures. This reinforced the position of the Magisterum or the teaching office of the Church. The exclusive right of the Church to interpret Scripture was one of the positions that Luther had attacked in his tract An Address to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation. Luther taught that the doctrine of the priesthood of believer meant that the individual Christian possessed the ability to interpret the Scriptures accurately. Although the Church did not officially condemn vernacular translations of the Bible, this canon effectively accomplished the same result." (http://blog.guidedbytruth.com/anathema.php)

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Even though the official Vatican position is that the Bible is the inerrant and inspired word of God

Not exactly. They teach the infallibility and openess of the canon through the papal line. So the ultimate inerrancy and authority belongs not with the scriptures but within the papacy.