(July 31, 2014 at 1:41 pm)SteveII Wrote: Where is your proof that no one wrote anything down? Guess what, most paper documents don't survive. The original gospels and Pauline letters have not survived and they would have been particularly prized. Jerusalem was sacked and burned--reducing further the likelihood of written Jewish records surviving. The Romans were not interested in Jesus until there was a large following to take note of decades if not a century later.
None of which helps your case. Where is the evidence anyone contemporaneous wrote anything down? To claim they did is idle speculation. Whereas, we do have the complete works of Philo. Lived in the area. Knew some of the players, was deeply interested in the topic. And yet, not a peep. Not a word. And we have many works of other historians/philosophers from the area and time period. Not a peep.
Quote:You also cannot make the claim that the writers of the Gospels were not working off of notes and written accounts of others. Clearly the goal was to tell a complete history so posterity could read and understand the context and content and not a court transcript with footnotes. There is no way for you to know the method by which this information was conveyed.
No,clearly the goal was propaganda and proselytizing with a heavy dose of fiction thrown in. Who was writing things down when Jesus had his thoughts in the Garden? All the apostles were asleep. Who was documenting Jesus' conversation with the Devil on the highest mountain? Jesus? Did he come back down and tell of his travels to some scribe who diligently wrote it down for the boss? And this story was faithfully preserved for 50-100 years? Again, idle speculation.
Quote:We know that Jesus existed and was almost certainly crucified.We know no such thing. All you have is ephemera and gossamer. And then, only copies of copies of copies of ephemera many, many decades later. Hardly convincing or compelling.
Quote:We know that a new religion sprang up around these events.Big deal. Religions are a dime a dozen. Islam sprang up around the alleged events in the 600s AD. Mormonism sprung up around the alleged events in the 1800s. Worthless to help your case.
Quote:We know that the very first adherents believed these events happened.Muslims believe their foundation myths too. Humanity is never short on gullible idiots. Big deal.
Quote:These events were written down and distributed only 30-60 years from the death of Jesus--still plenty of time for the older group to object to inaccuracies.Anyone who was hypothetically alive during the alleged events would have been very, very old. Doubtful many would live that long; given life expectancy of 40-50s.. And even then, you are implying there was some sort of process to correct any inaccuracies. You overreach quite readily.
Quote:Add to this the content of this new religious was not something that was likely made up--in both the complexity of the theology, the strong break from Judaism, and the circumstance surrounding Jesus. This all adds up to the only two logical conclusion available: that some or all of the things written in the Gospels happened. Of course it seems you have chosen the illogical conclusion and decided to stick you head in the sand. I have chose the other end of the spectrum and believe what is claims to be.Again, quite an overreach. Same argument could be made for Islam, Mormonism or any other bit of human-created bullshit.
The key word is "claims" to be. Now, to believe such claims, you have to accept those vaunted eyewitnesses have credibility, but we now know, without any doubt, eyewitness testimony is close to worthless. Newsflash - humans make shit up. They not only like to make shit up, they LOVE it. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!!! it.
The only logical conclusion is that the story is a myth, no doubt with elements of reality thrown in. No different than the works of Homer, tales of pagan gods, Mohamed's exploits and the lies of Joseph Smith. All cut from the same, fallible, all-too-human propensity to tell tall tales.
At least Homer makes for entertaining reading.
