Ministers Threatened with Jail/Fines For Refusing to Officiate at Gay Weddings

[Anomalocaris]

Yes, and they drove their buggy without state driver's licenses either, and they could, if they wanted, smoke anything they fancied as well. They just did it. You can do what you the hell you want if you don't expect state to provide services to you to support what you want to do. In a minimalist state that provides no services, you can do what the fuck you want.

Here if the church does not expect a church marriage to receive state services and benefits given to a civil marriage, they can do what the fuck they want. But they want to get state services and benefits for the type of marriage which does not meet state qualifications. This is all the more important because it is and always has been the aggtrandizement strategy of christainity to subvert publically beneficial institution to serve the ends of their religion, and in the end claim credit for creating the institution they subverted from others.

Let's be clear, these moronic ministers are not arguing the world ought to be as if the state provided no services. What they, and you, want is for your religion to freeload off the state's services while subverting the institutions of the state to religious ends.

Chuck, the people who get married in the Church "want the state services"....the Church doesn't benefit from those things...married people do. All you are saying is "If you get married in a church and not before a judge....then you aren't entitled to all the benefits the state has to offer you". You want to punish people for getting married in a Church because you don't like them going to Church.

The state shouldn't care where or who marries or require you to seek permission from it to get married. It should only respect your declaration that you married someone.

"Should" is in your opinion. In mine the state has every dutiful obligation, not just right, to clearly know exactly what policy goals it seeks to further by incurring the cost of offering benefits, and requires those claiming state benefits and thus obligating the state to show they have acted in a way that is consistent with furthering those policy goals.

The state should only respect any self declaration of marriage that makes no claims or demands whatsoever upon the state in the sense that the state has nothing to do with it.
But the self declared marriage seeks to avail itself any examptions, benefits, or other items of cost to state, then the state has the duty to verify your declaration of marriage has earned such validaiton as the state had deemed necessary to show the marriage benefits the state's policy goals.

As to the church benefiting, of course it benefits. It gains undeserved legitimacy by making itself an venue through which state benefits can be obtained against the policies interests of the state but for the policy interests of the church, at no cost to the church but at cost to the state. It freeloads off of the resources of the state to subvert the state.