Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 28, 2024, 5:53 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Apologetics open challenge
#13
RE: Apologetics open challenge
I will be first making argument for a creator.

1) Time is temporal (came to being).
2) Something that existed without time, had to bring it to being.
3) That something has to have will, as it was not inevitable that time comes to being through a physical thing.

As for premise 1. I say the following proofs for it.

Argument 1:

1) Each point of time is temporal (came to being).
2) If time consists of each point of time, that all of it came to being (due it being consisted of only things came to being).

Argument 2:

1) If time was infinite each point of time is preceded by a point of time
2) If time was infinite, the whole of time would not be preceded by a point of time.
3) This is a paradox, and hence time being infinite is impossible.



These are sufficient, even though there are more arguments. 

As for premise 2. That something that existed without time, had to cause it to come to being.

It can be argued that there is no more north to the north pole, but this suggests that there is no going back before the first point of time, but not that anything didn't ontological precede it or that it was always there and didn't need to come into being. Therefore it makes sense something without time brought it into being.

As for premise 3. That it needed will.

I take it as manifest that a physical thing cannot cause a wondrous thing as time to exist and just make it appear after not existing. This is clear and manifest, and just needs to be thought about. A lifeless force simply cannot do this. It has no magical power.

A being with will and magical power, is the only being capable of doing this.


So far this says nothing about the Creator other then what I stated (which wasn't much). However, I feel once you accept the Creator, things like the soul existing becomes more manifest to you and then with the signs of divine light and soul, you can witness divinity, the absolute source of greatness and absolute great Lord.

Peace.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 3:26 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pizza - July 20, 2015 at 4:06 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 4:08 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Longhorn - July 20, 2015 at 4:12 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Longhorn - July 20, 2015 at 4:10 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 4:17 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by ignoramus - July 20, 2015 at 4:16 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Minimalist - July 20, 2015 at 2:19 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by ignoramus - July 20, 2015 at 5:45 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 8:52 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by downbeatplumb - July 20, 2015 at 9:01 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pizza - July 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Whateverist - July 20, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by vorlon13 - July 20, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Longhorn - July 20, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Ravenshire - September 9, 2015 at 12:25 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 9, 2015 at 12:29 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Ravenshire - September 9, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 2:55 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 2:52 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 2:59 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 3:01 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by The Grand Nudger - July 20, 2015 at 3:11 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 3:20 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 3:22 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 3:44 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pyrrho - July 20, 2015 at 7:07 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 3:44 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 3:47 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 4:00 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Esquilax - July 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 20, 2015 at 4:05 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 20, 2015 at 4:15 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 21, 2015 at 5:38 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 10:39 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Longhorn - July 21, 2015 at 10:45 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 21, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 12:30 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 22, 2015 at 6:07 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 6:47 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 22, 2015 at 6:08 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 22, 2015 at 6:56 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 6:58 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 22, 2015 at 7:04 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 7:08 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 22, 2015 at 7:10 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 22, 2015 at 7:16 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 23, 2015 at 3:34 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 22, 2015 at 5:47 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 3:40 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 5:17 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 7:36 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - July 23, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - July 23, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - August 10, 2015 at 4:12 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by The Grand Nudger - August 10, 2015 at 9:10 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - August 10, 2015 at 9:12 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 9, 2015 at 12:01 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 9, 2015 at 1:44 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - September 9, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pyrrho - September 10, 2015 at 11:15 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 11, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pyrrho - September 11, 2015 at 9:13 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 11, 2015 at 9:15 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 3:19 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:23 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 30, 2015 at 4:21 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 1:51 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 9, 2015 at 2:01 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - September 9, 2015 at 2:28 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 2:42 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Cyberman - September 9, 2015 at 10:40 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 9, 2015 at 10:04 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 9, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by thehedglin - September 10, 2015 at 12:23 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 10, 2015 at 1:09 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pyrrho - September 10, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2015 at 12:17 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Shining_Finger - September 20, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Cyberman - September 20, 2015 at 12:25 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Shining_Finger - September 24, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 6:36 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 21, 2015 at 6:38 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2015 at 10:24 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by ignoramus - September 23, 2015 at 7:45 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 10:26 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - September 22, 2015 at 10:20 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 23, 2015 at 8:23 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 23, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 23, 2015 at 2:47 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Minimalist - September 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pyrrho - September 23, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Minimalist - September 24, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 23, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Pyrrho - September 23, 2015 at 2:49 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 23, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 24, 2015 at 9:29 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 24, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 24, 2015 at 1:07 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Cyberman - September 24, 2015 at 1:48 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Mr Greene - September 24, 2015 at 8:53 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 25, 2015 at 2:42 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 25, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 25, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 4:18 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by ignoramus - September 25, 2015 at 7:23 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Cyberman - September 25, 2015 at 9:17 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Kingpin - September 25, 2015 at 10:07 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Cyberman - September 25, 2015 at 10:25 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 25, 2015 at 9:41 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 10:21 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 25, 2015 at 10:37 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 10:57 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by SofaKingHigh - September 25, 2015 at 11:10 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 25, 2015 at 11:33 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Cyberman - September 25, 2015 at 11:05 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Crossless1 - September 25, 2015 at 11:25 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 3:04 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 25, 2015 at 2:45 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by abaris - September 25, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 26, 2015 at 1:38 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 2:59 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by abaris - September 25, 2015 at 5:22 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 25, 2015 at 10:07 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by ignoramus - September 26, 2015 at 1:54 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 26, 2015 at 3:55 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 26, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - September 28, 2015 at 10:43 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Homeless Nutter - September 28, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 28, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - September 29, 2015 at 8:30 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - September 29, 2015 at 7:46 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 1, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - October 1, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 1, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - October 1, 2015 at 9:59 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 1, 2015 at 10:12 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - October 2, 2015 at 5:14 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 2, 2015 at 9:31 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Crossless1 - October 2, 2015 at 9:48 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Angrboda - October 3, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 3, 2015 at 11:23 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2015 at 8:05 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 1, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 1, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 1, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by TheRocketSurgeon - October 2, 2015 at 12:13 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by MysticKnight - October 1, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Minimalist - October 1, 2015 at 10:42 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by Minimalist - October 1, 2015 at 8:12 pm
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - October 2, 2015 at 3:44 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by bambi_swag - October 2, 2015 at 6:16 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - October 2, 2015 at 6:24 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by marianomanto - October 2, 2015 at 6:33 am
RE: Apologetics open challenge - by robvalue - October 2, 2015 at 6:36 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A critical thinking challenge Foxaèr 18 4450 June 15, 2018 at 12:09 pm
Last Post: Drich
  A challenge to anyone I guess! Mystic 27 5333 June 10, 2018 at 3:48 pm
Last Post: Mystic
  Liberalism's Great Challenge? Minimalist 20 3471 September 10, 2016 at 2:39 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  A challenge to any and all religions collectively. Brian37 24 4697 May 2, 2016 at 7:53 pm
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  Pre-Suppositional Christian Apologetics SpecUVdust 11 2656 November 14, 2015 at 2:33 pm
Last Post: SpecUVdust
  The Greatest Challenge to Atheists Ever The Valkyrie 32 6992 October 19, 2015 at 9:36 am
Last Post: loganonekenobi
  Open Origin Religions? Brometheus 26 5627 April 6, 2015 at 10:33 am
Last Post: Aractus
  A simple challenge for atheists bob96 775 113944 February 20, 2015 at 11:17 pm
Last Post: goodwithoutgod
  Challenge to christians: Satan wrote the bible robvalue 120 23615 February 15, 2015 at 5:13 am
Last Post: emilynghiem
  Challenge For Theists Nope 65 12393 February 11, 2015 at 1:07 pm
Last Post: robvalue



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)