Christianity: Don't Reason, Just Obey

[Chad32]

The article you linked mentions she believes in the whole "free gift" idea. It's a weird concept. If something if free, it means you get it regardless of anything else. You don't need to change your life. You don't need to give anything in return. It's just yours. It's like if I showed up at your door, slipped $20 under it, and left. Maybe I'd say I'm giving away cash. Do what you want with this.

I'm not really sure why people think salvation is free, because if it was then everyone would get into heaven. You might say people need to accept it first. Well the bible says everyone already knows that god exists, so we're already aware of this gift. We all know it's there. Yet I'm pretty sure if a believer says salvation is a free gift, and the atheist says ok I accept it, and goes about his or her life doing exactly the same thing, the believer would have a problem with it.

Does the Bible teach that 'people need to accept it first?' Is belief a work of man, or a work of God? Is salvation a work of the will of man, or the will of God?

Personally my studies have led me to conclude that 'people don't need to accept it first.' But let's assume this is true for the sake of your argument. It's true that the Bible says everyone already knows that God exists and so are aware of the gift. However, that doesn't necessitate that a person accepts the gift.

In your analogy you say that 'an atheist says ok I accept it'. How can a person who doesn't have faith in God make a true profession of faith in God? It's a nonsensical statement. Bear in mind that salvation is by faith alone, ... and that without faith it is impossible to please God. But your statement does raise an important question: How do we get faith? Does faith come about by the will of man, or by the will of God?

Well you said it was free. If I'm expected to do anything different in return, it isn't a free gift.

It's important to define terms. 'Free' means that it is unmerited. We say that salvation is 'free' in that the saved person can do nothing to merit the salvation, so for them it is free.

To your statement, you have confused salvation with what comes after. Yes salvation is 'free' (unmerited), we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. We are saved by grace, that no man may boast. From there, the Bible teaches that we are saved (unmerited) unto good works. In other words, we are saved and then we are called to good works. The 'called to good works' is in part what theologians call sanctification. It is the process we are conformed to the image and likeness of Christ And it also is a working of God in us. So back to your original comment, the 'expected to do anything different in return' is in relation to sanctification and operates as a result of salvation, not in order for it. Consider, you give me that $20, I didn't merit the $20, that is salvation. I'm affected by your gesture and as a result I begin to live differently, that is sanctification. It's an incomplete analogy, but it is a start.

Yes it does teach that you need to accept it first. At least that's what I've always been told. Of course the bible is so confusing that people have been debating over it for 2000 years, to the point that there are splinter groups upon splinter groups of people who can't decide what it really teaches. If it's completely up to Yahweh, and he wants us all to get into hevaen, there's no reason for anyone to not get into heaven. In that case, it apparently does depend on people. Of course some responsibility does fall on Yahweh, which he's obviously lacking due to many people not getting into heaven because they simply don't believe he exists.

Salvation by faith alone, or salvation primarily by faith, is a pretty unjust system anyway. There's no concrete evidence to base faith upon, and people like Hitler are more likely to get into heaven than people of other or no religion that most people on earth would consider likable and helpful people.