RE: From where come your morals?
April 17, 2015 at 4:44 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2015 at 4:55 pm by Quatermass.)
(April 11, 2015 at 8:29 am)urlawyer Wrote: So, this is kind of a big topic amongst theists and atheists alike since it is paramount to each of our identities, worldview, and how we live our daily lives. I take a firm stance in the grounds of subjective morality which is why we have such a diversely opinionated people.
What I want to know is what values do you personally hold as a baseline for your own morality? Theists are welcome to join in the discussion but if you propose your holy scriptures as your foundation, please offer some specific pieces instead of the entirety so this doesn't turn into another "this-is-why-your-book-isn't-a-valid-source-of-morality" thread.
My personal baseline values are: human existence, individual enjoyment of said existence, truth, and knowledge.
I suppose these values make me something of an intellectual humanist... if my understanding of what a humanist is is correct.
All morality comes from the environment. Everything you hold dear to be right and wrong (illusions in of themselves) are a product of various influences in your environment affecting you at various points of your life from birth to now. This is the only source of morality.
It also accounts for why the morality if people differs based on geographical location. The morality of someone in Saudi Arabia differs from that of someone in North America because the values of that society are very different.
(April 11, 2015 at 8:41 pm)robvalue Wrote: How anyone can ever intentionally harm another person or animal, and not for their overall benefit, is just astounding to me.
Certain morals can cause other morals to develop or be lost.
Example:
Over the course of your life you have developed the moral that prostitution is immoral. You were not necessarily given this morality by your parents, but other factors have caused it to develop over the years. You later discover your mother is a prostitute. Because of your morality, you may be so sickened by this intelligence that you kill another prostitute. This, psychologically, may satisfy you and so you kill more prostitutes. You become a serial killer. Because of the morality 'prostitution is immoral' was compromised, the morality is 'killing is immoral' also becomes compromised.
Sometimes, the enforcement of one moral can lead to another being compromised also. Albert Fish, a famous serial killer of children is a famous example of this:
At the time, people couldn't understand why Fish was the way he was. This led, in part, to the theory of a genetic disposition (which is wholly incorrect). But an enterprising psychologist found that Fish's mother was a devout Catholic and, when Fish was young, she caught him masturbating. Her response was to point at him sternly and shout 'If you do that, you'll burn in Hell!'
The young Fish was so petrified by this idea, that he began sticking needles in his own genitals in a misguided act of repentance. Since his mother (or anyone else) was never witness to this misbehaviour, it could never be negatively reinforced to re-adjust him. And so the problem got worse. And later Fish began cutting off the genitals of young children and then killing him. Not because he was evil, or perverted, but because - in his mind - he was saving them from Hell.
So, in the final analysis, because the (false) morality 'Masturbation is Immoral' was brutishly enforced, it caused the morality 'killing is immoral' to become compromised.
(April 17, 2015 at 12:02 am)Deidre32 Wrote: Altruism is a component of evolution. All animals exhibit it to varying degrees. From that stems our ability to know right from wrong. Now, how someone is raised can impact that person's level of empathy, so...while nature brings us traits suitable for compassion and morality (however you define that)...how we are nurtured, brings the rest into place.
A sense of knowing right from wrong doesn't stem from religion, but religion tends to hijack concepts that it had nothing to do with in the first place. :/
Social History and Social Psychology can readily evidence that morality must precede religion in all cases for religion to have a concept of morality.