RE: Please present positive arguments why you think atheism is true
April 24, 2012 at 11:36 am
(This post was last modified: April 24, 2012 at 11:36 am by NoMoreFaith.)
(April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am)Jireh Wrote: has it been proven, naturalism to be true ?
Given axiomatic assumptions that reality exists and that you can make predictions based upon that reality.
If you have a problem with that, you must be very scared you're going to fall through the floor and fall apart at any given moment.
Even if we say reality isn't real.. that does not indicate God.
(April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am)Jireh Wrote: Its quit simple. You can think, right ? how could transformation, or evolution, of dead matter, happen to self conscience and thougt ? Its simply not possible. There is no bridge from one thing to the other. So by the very own existence of hability of thought, you can deduce logically God exists.
Is it just me who has Vizzini repeating "Inconceivable!" in their mind, every time Jirah makes such a fallacious comment?
You reject naturalism, and then claim what is possible and impossible in the natural universe.
Let me make it simple. You can't have it both ways. You can't claim something is impossible and then deny naturalism in the same sentence.
You can only make that mutually exclusive claim, if you accept methodological naturalism to state what is possible and impossible as a measure of probability.
Otherwise.. what are you basing your claim it is impossible on? Logic? Based on observation of the possible? .. oh, thats a naturalistic observation, you don't believe in it.
(April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am)Jireh Wrote: a even more extraordinary claim would be to assert, everything arose from absolutely nothing.
While it the definition of extraordinary is debatable here, it has been clarified many times that nobody believes the universe comes from nothing, without a definitive statement of what you believe to be nothing.
It is definitely extraordinary to claim "absolute nothing", but then "absolute nothing" is potentially impossible.
You're just building a strawman that has been pointed out no less than 10 times now.
Quote:the existence of an actually infinite number of things is metaphysically impossible.
Therefore God is finite?
Let me break this down a little further, because I'm sure that statement twisted your knickers.
Your argument presupposes the existence of time prior to the existence of this universe in order for an eternal God to "decide" to create the universe from his metaphysical realm.
However, time is a property OF the universe, not external to it, so you must also declare that God lives in his own metaphysical timescale which IS eternal and created the universe at a finite point.
If a finite point exists then you have given that point existence in God's metaphysical eternal reality. The point in eternity God creates the universe, is a measurable instant which assumes prior instants(i.e. before universe/post universe). Measurable.. finite points.... whoops.. "the existence of an actually infinite number of things is metaphysically impossible.".
Unless you are now arguing that the impossible IS possible, then you refute the first premise of the KCA.
Apparently this mess of paradoxes is the "easy answer". Your easy answer will basically just say "Impossible is impossible unless Goddidit" which defies the logical premise of the argument and instead is an assertion of belief, not reason.
(April 24, 2012 at 10:02 am)Jireh Wrote: we theists have it pretty easy to have faith in Gods existence. The evidence is obvious. In the counterpart, its a hard struggle for the thinking atheist to deny God......and must be indeed quit frustrating.
By extension, the lunatics in the asylum have it the easiest of all.
I happen to agree. Presupposition of a privately asserted fact to fill gaps in knowledge is very easy to do. I could presuppose faeries in the faery kingdoms did it all, and make it easier to "understand" the universe.
This says nothing about the truth content of filling gaps with imagination.
BTW - It's spelt quite.. not quit.. I thought it was just a typo at first.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm