Debate with a Christian

[pocaracas]

Finally!!!!
The cat is out of the bag!
I'll try not to repeat the points other have made about you reply, discipulus... just to push a bit further on a few things you may have missed.

Look into what he says closely, something extraordinary is indeed present. He states that an immense multitude of Christians were convicted by Nero for starting the fire that burned a great deal of Rome in 64A.D.

Yes, of course, "immense multitude"... How many make up such a multitude?
How did they go from repressed minority to immense multitude in a few lines of text?
Anyway, I can agree with you that there were people who followed the teaching of christ... or some or other form of those teachings.

Now, if Jesus, who we know was crucified, had died and indeed remained dead, then it becomes inexplicable as to how His immediate disciples (all of which were Jews), who were despondent, fearful of their lives and forced into hiding, could have somehow been the cause of there being an immense multitude of Christians in Rome which is roughly 2,000 miles a way in a mere thirty years!

Now do tell me how those people 2000 miles away would have come to know about these events concerning Jesus?
Did they all witness them and then flocked to Rome to tel everyone about it?
Or... as the story goes... one man traveled to Rome and told the tale?
A tale which, as we know, is appealing to the masses, the poor and destitute.
Is the fact that people believed and propagated the tale of this one man a testament of the reality of that tale? Or a testament of the gullibility of the people?
Occam's Razor suggests the simplest answer is often the real one.

The presence of so many Christians in Rome at this particular time roughly 2,000 miles away from where Christ was crucified and buried leaving behind a rag tag group of Galileans who were forced into hiding and despondent at the death of their Rabbi, cries out for an explanation.

Yes... Rome was a city, the capital of the Empire. Where opportunity looms for those who leave the countryside and try their luck at a potentially easier life... I wonder... has this ever happened again in human history?
So, lots of people in one place, unlike Galilee, where one tale, one appealing tale, brings hope to those without it, and swooosh.

Both Suetonius, the Chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian and the Roman Historian Tacitus mention a "superstition" when speaking of Christians and many historians see this as an allusion to the claim of the disciples that Jesus had been resurrected.

Claims by one disciple of something beyond the normal.
Ok, maybe two...

Are we really to believe that these twelve Galileans would:

A. Be able to somehow steal Jesus' body guarded by Roman soldiers....

B. Hide the body in such a way as for it to never be found...

C. Fabricate a lie (Jesus rising from the dead)

D. Go out and proclaim that He did indeed rise from the dead (something they knew was a lie)

errr... yes, they would do that...
Take your picking at recent "religions" and cults and you see the same thing happening.
Cargo cult, scientology, etc... all share the same sort of fabrication and proclamation.

E. Boldy proclaim the remission of sins in His name in a Second-Temple Judaistic culture which would have earned them immediate ostracism

I skip this one as I'm not aware of what it's about...
Perhaps you'd like to instruct me?

F. Be so effective in their proclamation of this lie that Christianity spread so rapidly as to have an immense multitude of followers 2,000 miles away in the capital city of a pagan empire...

A tale custom made for the poor goes a long way when the vast majority of the population is poor.... and goes ever further when you have a bunch of these poor people in one single place.

G. Be willing to die and suffer some of the most extreme forms of torture, and persecution and ultimately death for something they knew was a lie.

As I understand it, Rome was a hub of multiple cults. Anything was possible there.
It's only as these people become bothersome that they become persecuted... by then, it's too late. Belief is inculcated and, like it happens with any other belief system, will not go away, unless force is applied.
Parents teach this belief to their children who then propagate it to their children and it goes on and on... until it hits a rift.
e.g. The egyptian gods were driven out by the romans/christians, and eventually died out, however even nowadays "many festivals and other traditions in Egypt, both Christian and Muslim, resemble the worship of Egypt's ancient gods." linky winky.

H. Inspire an immense multitude to also die and suffer the most extreme forms of torture

Inspire them in the knowledge that they die to meet their loving caring "heavenly father"?... Any mortal suffering pales in comparison to that!
Also, poor people had little or nothing to lose in this earthly realm.

And accomplish all of the above by basing their new religion on a complete lie?

Yes, it seems similar to how all other religions got started, wouldn't you think?

Overnight they go from despondent, leaderless, cowardly, fearful men, to men who literally turned the world upside down so that today in 2014 nearly a third of the world's population (over 2,000,000,000) people worship Christ as God!

Overnight?... I wouldn't say that... it was a difficult battle.... won some 300 years after, when the religion got adopted by the roman empire, to appease the masses (so the tale goes)... the same masses to whom the story so appealed.
Does that make the story real?

To say that this is extraordinary would be a gross understatement. Not only that but the sheer improbability of this happening and all of it happening while Jesus lay dead somewhere is so staggering as to make one's mind reel when thinking of the improbability of it.

How did the egyptian gods become adored by the egyptians for some 4000 years?
How did the vikings come to believe in the norse gods?
How did the muslims come to believe in Allah?
How... well, I think you get the picture...
How extraordinary it was that any relative large group of people came to believe in a single mythology?
Does that make any of those mythologies true and based on reality?

Zealous men will oftentimes die for what they believe to be true, but I am aware of no one who would die for something they knew to be a lie. This is exactly what we have to believe if we are to believe that Christianity is based on some colossal lie.

Remember how many "witnesses" actually traveled from Galilee to Rome? one? two?...
Only these would be aware of the deception... and it seems these lived to be old men...

Is it not more probable and in accordance with Occam's Razor( i.e the principle of parsimony or succinctness) that Jesus Rose from the Dead in accordance with scripture and that Christ was and is alive and well and building His Church as He said He would?

A scripture that was written when it was already going on?

Come on... I thought you had something better to bring forward.
It was, nonetheless, refreshing and interesting.
Thank you.