it sounds like you are not allowing this possibility because it is unappealing to you.
It's not that it's unappealing, it's just that it makes no sense. It comes back to that old argument that asks if God created the universe then who created God. Answer: He's always existed. So, why can't you just say that the universe has always existed?
Why is it anymore complicated than 'matter' and space always existing?
Because an omniscient and omnipotent entity that created 'matter' must be complicated beyond belief. Everything we know about the Cosmos indicated that systems start off with a certain level of simplicity and then get more complex with time. This argument goes against the very nature of, well, nature.
Maybe your view of 'god' is not correct anyway, or of most people come to that.
Well, which God are we talking about? When I hear the name I think of the God(s) of the bible. Both from the OT and the new.
There are different levels of existence it would seem (in the quantum world) so anything is possible.
Even if anything were possible then what would be dealing with is probability. And from what we know about the nature of reality the notion that it was all created by an infinitely complex and all powerful entity that just willed it into existence is mind bogglingly improbable.
I just think that it is a possibility and shouldn't be dismissed as lightly as Sagan would have you do.
Believe me when I tell you that Carl Sagan did not dismiss the idea just like that. It is just that to him, and well over a billion of us on the Earth we simply cannot believe for the sake of it, how ever much we may want to. The Universe is the way it is no matter what we want to believe and it does not have to conform to our expectations of it.
And just maybe some of us are attributing purpose and design correctly because it's so glaringly obvious that the simplest piece of matter is so beautifully complex that it would be silly to think it came about out of nothing.
You could equally argue that attributing purpose and design to something beautifully complex is just as silly. Just because you see something as beautiful does not mean that it has been designed. All it means is that you see it as beautiful because that's the way that your mind works. This doesn't mean that it isn't beautiful or awe inspiring but to attribute it to a god shows a rather anthropic attitude towards the Universe.
I'll let Allen handle his bit
It's not that it's unappealing, it's just that it makes no sense. It comes back to that old argument that asks if God created the universe then who created God. Answer: He's always existed. So, why can't you just say that the universe has always existed?
Why is it anymore complicated than 'matter' and space always existing?
Because an omniscient and omnipotent entity that created 'matter' must be complicated beyond belief. Everything we know about the Cosmos indicated that systems start off with a certain level of simplicity and then get more complex with time. This argument goes against the very nature of, well, nature.
Maybe your view of 'god' is not correct anyway, or of most people come to that.
Well, which God are we talking about? When I hear the name I think of the God(s) of the bible. Both from the OT and the new.
There are different levels of existence it would seem (in the quantum world) so anything is possible.
Even if anything were possible then what would be dealing with is probability. And from what we know about the nature of reality the notion that it was all created by an infinitely complex and all powerful entity that just willed it into existence is mind bogglingly improbable.
I just think that it is a possibility and shouldn't be dismissed as lightly as Sagan would have you do.
Believe me when I tell you that Carl Sagan did not dismiss the idea just like that. It is just that to him, and well over a billion of us on the Earth we simply cannot believe for the sake of it, how ever much we may want to. The Universe is the way it is no matter what we want to believe and it does not have to conform to our expectations of it.
And just maybe some of us are attributing purpose and design correctly because it's so glaringly obvious that the simplest piece of matter is so beautifully complex that it would be silly to think it came about out of nothing.
You could equally argue that attributing purpose and design to something beautifully complex is just as silly. Just because you see something as beautiful does not mean that it has been designed. All it means is that you see it as beautiful because that's the way that your mind works. This doesn't mean that it isn't beautiful or awe inspiring but to attribute it to a god shows a rather anthropic attitude towards the Universe.
I'll let Allen handle his bit