The right to mis-define oneself

[Thumpalumpacus]

Why do you keep fucking putting words in my mouth?  Did I say I speak for all men?  No.  I believe MANY men would be traumatized by an unexpected last-minute reveal.  Yes, I'm one of them.  And I've heard many others say similar things.

Okay, I'll back off of "all" in the quoted post. But quite frankly, I don't think most would, and you touting your personal feelings in rebuttal is thin gruel indeed.

Go out into the street and ask a couple hundred random men if they would be traumatized if in a sexual situation, their supposedly female date whipped out her penis.  If you think the percent who would answer yes is non-zero, or trivially small, then I think you're deluded.  But until that is actually done, then I'm perfectly aware that I could be wrong.  Maybe the majority would say something like, "Traumatized?  Nah.  I'd just get the hell outta there."  Based on how I've seen many men act, I believe the average reaction would be stronger than that.

In case you haven't noticed, my issue is not with numbers, it's with your use of the word "traumatized". I'd suggest you go look that up before you reply to this post. This would cause psychological injury to you? Are you fucking kidding?

I never really accused you of lying.  I said I think you're lying, because it's so apparent to me that many men would find a late reveal traumatizing that I can't see how anyone would not believe that to be the case.

Hey, fuck off. You're trying to lay the accusation even as you deny it. "I think you're lying" is an accusation of lying, but you apparently don't even have the guts to own your positive assertions, much less your unspoken premises.

 

But I also said I could be wrong, and that we should attempt research.  If it turns out that the majority of men wouldn't be traumatized by a late reveal, then I would learn a lot of interesting things: 1) some people legitimately believe what you're saying, and you are not just claiming so for argument's sake; 2) my own ideas don't represent the norm; 3) a transwoman may not actually be committing a serious offense by not telling a potential partner about her penis before she gets into an encounter.

I'm open to that possibility.  I just don't think it represents reality.

Thankfully, your education is not my responsibility. We're exchanging opinions here. You're uncomfortable because your opinion is being challenged, but you want me to do your homework for you. That isn't happening. I know what traumatized means. I don't think most men in the circumstances you're laying out would be traumatized. My stepdad was traumatized by his combat in Vietnam; he woke up in the middle of the night screaming often enough for me to think that your feelings about being bamboozled on a hypothetical one-night stand wouldn't be of that caliber.

I can fully and comfortably acknowledge that it's backpedalling.

Except that you didn't until I pointed it out. Not the height of intellectual honesty there.

 The sexual comments were in support of an idea-- and I care more about that idea than about debating exactly what constitutes rape, sexual assault, or just bad manners.  I don't need late reveals to be rape, or even assault, to make my point: that defining one's self as something does not make one that thing.

Then perhaps you ought not make such an asinine comparison? And then perhaps when that foolish comparison is pointed out for its foolishness, you ought to simply admit it, rather than dig in your heels? And then perhaps when you do finally relent, you ought to acknowledge that you made a poor choice of words, or you weren't really thinking?

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not, nor have I ever, argued against your main point. The only issue that I've taken up with you is your mindless comparison, clearly made with little thought, subsequently defended with great vigor, and never supported with any depth. You're better than this -- or at least you should be.

I think most men faced with a last minute reveal would at the very least say, "If you're a woman, why do you have a penis?"  You guys are making it out like this would be an unfair and prejudicial question: why ask, if a person with a penis is a woman just because that's how they identify?

I'd be pissed, and embarrassed, too -- no doubt. I wouldn't be traumatized, nor would I feel like I'd been raped. And before you ask what I know about sexual abuse, I'll tell you -- I was molested as a child. I know a little about carrying psychological injury around.

I think most people, upon discovering that a woman, who is not adopted, has two parents so white they gleam in the sun, would ask, "In what sense can you be said to be 'colored' except for the fact that you apply tanning cream?"  Why ask, if identifying as black is sufficient to BE black?

Again, I've never argued against your main point, only the thoughtless comments you've made supporting it. Unless you've been raped, you would probably do well to leave rape comparisons out of it. That has been the only issue I've had with your points in this thread. If you're going to compare a TS/TG surprise to rape, then tell us: what grounds do you have for this comparison? Have you been raped?