Islam in Europe: perception and reality

[Mudhammam]

No, I'm arguing for being perfectly aware of what one is buying when making war. I'm also arguing against the fairy tale of any war being something clean, with all kinds of euphemisms employed. Such as colaterals when the real word is innocent victims.

The public as well as politics and individuals should be aware of that when engaging. They should know the package they're buying.

No disagreement there. I never suggested that war is "clean." And as far as collateral damage, whether or not the term diminishes the reality of human suffering it entails (and I'm inclined to agree with you that it does), it still doesn't change the meaning of the term which is simply unintended civilian deaths.

And again, I'm well aware that we're better than ISIL.

That is good to know. Keep in mind then that my responses were primarily aimed at the notion that we are no better (and some say even worse) than the terrorists, which was the idiotic suggestion made by Heat.

That's not the hardest task on this planet. But that doesn't make me comfortable with civilian casualties. Most of all because I am willing to walk a mile in the shoes of the victims and can only come to the conclusion that joining up with the enemies of my enemies is a very realistic option.

So, words are words. Better stay on planet earth and think of the consequences. Before taking certain actions, that is.

I agree completely. I don't want anybody to unjustly die as a result of war. It's just a fact, though, that it will happen, and sometimes war is necessary. Do you think we are justified in waging war against a group like ISIS or the Taliban? And if so, don't you have to acknowledge that it is a reality that civilians will die as a result of our bombs; do you think that this automatically makes our fight unethical?

Btw, I'm aware that the U.S. has done some truly unethical and horrendous deeds in recent and distant wars, but I don't think that these are representative of overall strategy or policy when deciding to engage in military action, and certainly not representative of the overwhelming majority of our soldiers. Indeed, the case could easily be made that soldiers or commanders who have intentionally targeted innocents ought to be held accountable, more than the few instances in which they have; whereas ISIS fighters who burn pilots alive in cages or bury a pile of villagers in a pit are not merely "a few bad apples" in al-Baghdadi's army.