RE: On Logic and Alternate Universes
November 6, 2016 at 3:01 pm
(This post was last modified: November 6, 2016 at 3:02 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 6, 2016 at 2:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote: He has, I have, just stop.
No. You think you have. But you can't concieve of anything without implying the truth of the law of identity and you've already agreed that 2+2=5 violates that so no you haven't hypothesized it, you've either hypothesized nothing or you've hypothesized a universe with the law of identity and where 2+2=4 and you've merely labelled it as a universe without the law of identity and where 2+2=5. This is the use/mention error you keep making. Just because it's possible to mention "2+2=5" hypothetically doesn't mean you're actually successfully saying that 2 things and 2 things could be 5 things hypothetically.
I need someone else to get their ass in this thread who understands the full implications of the truth of the law of identity
Quote:-and that is where you are completely wrong. The law of identity doesn't imply that 2+2=4, it -states- that something is what it is and not what it is not.
It does state that and that's why it implies it. 2+2=4 means that two things and two things are the same as 4 things. Or in other words 2+2=2+2 or 4=4. Or A=A. The law of identity.
And this is the part you've already agreed with before, you've already agreed that 2+2=5 violates the law of identity. This is where you're contradicting yourself.
Quote: In the -hypothetical universe-, the identity of the sum of 2+2 is 5,
It can't be. You can label it thus but 4 things cannot be 5 things. "4" can be "5" but 4 can not be 5. I hope to fuck you understand the difference and the purpose of the air quotes.
Quote:so even if we are invoking that law...which we don't have to.
Yes we do have to.
Quote:.but I do for convenience and to make this somehow sensible, that -is- what the sum of 2 and 2 is. It's 5. That's not what it is -here-...outside of the hypothetical, but that's irrelevant.
It's not what it is anywhere. "5" could be redefined or relabelled to be anything, even cheesecake. But 5 things can never be anything but 5 things, in any universe.