RE: Question For Fellow Atheists...
January 19, 2017 at 6:42 am
(This post was last modified: January 19, 2017 at 7:41 am by robvalue.)
(January 18, 2017 at 3:47 pm)robvalue Wrote:(January 18, 2017 at 1:15 pm)Autolite Wrote: Well it's like I've already said, as Atheists we need to stop affording Theism any respect or credibility. We should collectively encourage the attitude that Theism is no different than any delusional belief. Instead of calling it merely a 'difference of opinion' we should all be regarding it for what it really is and that is bat-shit crazy nonsense.
Remember when we discussed the medical definition of 'delusion' and that that definition excludes religious belief? We should challenge that definition instead of accepting it. Dr Peter Boghossian of PSU is doing just this. He wants to see the medical definition for delusion in the DSM revised so that it does not exclude religious belief...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIaPXtZpzBw
Sure, informally, it is a delusion. I'm totally with you there. But medically, it has different causes, manifests in different ways and doesn't respond to the same treatments as delusions caused by mental illness. Religious people are not, on the whole, mentally ill. The only reason I can think of for making such a formal change would be to try and shame people into not being religious anymore. Personally, I think that's not going to work.
I'll check out that video soon though and see what he has had to say about it.
I'm up to 18:27 in the video. I agree with everything he says so far.
I'll be interested to see how this all applies to medical definitions. Going to keep watching.
Ok, I'm up to 40:00 now. He's now basically echoing what I said about trying to encourage people to think rationally, and having open and honest discourse. Of course, I agree. This can sometimes get through to people, or plant seeds for later. I'm confused as to why you disliked my ideas when your own guy is supporting them.
Now I've watched his whole speech up to 44:00.
I agree, religious beliefs are a delusion. But he has barely touched upon the benefits of medically treating it the same way as a delusion brought on by mental illness. He hasn't addressed the practical issues here. This doesn't seem to be a medical issue at all, but rather one of language. And I still see several very real differences between faith and mental illness related delusions. Do you have any more material which goes into this?
I mean sure, you could medically call it a delusion. But it's still not the same; there are different kinds of delusions. And the medical field is concerned with diagnosis and treatment. So maybe it needs a way of distinguishing the two. I agree that denying religious beliefs are delusions is bizarre, but it's not accurate to lump all delusions together either. "Reinforced/programmed delusion", maybe.
There is the larger issue of whether the world is ready for this categorization. I'd say that probably, it is not. At least in some countries. Would doing it too soon be counter-productive? Or would it speed things up? My instincts tell me it would do more harm than good, until religion has naturally died down a bit more. But that's an interesting discussion.
Is it pragmatic to call 70% of your own countries' population delusional? This would be the case in the USA. In England, the man on the street would generally probably be fine with it, but there would be severe pockets of resistance also. The queen...
But remember, I agree with you. Religious people are deluded. But that's not what is at stake in this video.
Okay, so... I wouldn't at all be opposed to religion being classes as a delusion alongside other delusions which are not the result of mental illness.
Delusions of belief are very different from vivid, realistic hallucination type delusions. Maybe that's the issue here. If the medical definition of delusion does not imply hallucinations, then I'd agree it would be accurate.
But whether it would be pragmatic, is still in question.
If I'm correct about the above proviso, then I hope he succeeds, because it would be fucking hilarious. I'd love to see what the knock-on effect will be. But it's an extremely bold move, and I don't know if the world is brave enough yet.
Feel free to send me a private message.
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