A Christian group showed up at the Chigaco Gay Pride...

[RW_9]

...wait, what? They're not celebrating "love, fun, and acceptance." They're celebrating a particular kind of lifestyle. And last time I checked, saying "No, I don't think that kind of lifestyle is actually good" isn't celebrating "hate, intolerance, and bigotry" any more than saying "Yes, I think this kind of lifestyle is actually good."

Here is the fundamental reason this discussion has become pointless: you believe this is about lifestyle. Which essentially is the same line of thinking as "Well, I don't have a problem with black people themselves, it's when they live in sin with a white woman that bothers me."

I've had this conversation too many times and seen it degrade to this very point too many times, so there's no point in continuing. Have a nice day. Way to hijack what was a fun thread.

[CliveStaples]

Since when has the WBC ever said something as calm as "No, I don't think that kind of lifestyle is actually good?" No, they're spouting hate speech pure & simple. How can "God hates fags" be anything but hate speech? They're telling a group of people that God hates them and therefore the WBC members hate them as well. They're spreading hate, intolerance, and bigotry.

And you're lumping me in with them because I put a different normative moral value on homosexual sex than you do.

And frankly, if you don't like gay pride parades, then don't go to them.

Frankly, if you don't like gay pride protest parades, then don't go to them.

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Here is the fundamental reason this discussion has become pointless: you believe this is about lifestyle. Which essentially is the same line of thinking as "Well, I don't have a problem with black people themselves, it's when they live in sin with a white woman that bothers me."

I've had this conversation too many times and seen it degrade to this very point too many times, so there's no point in continuing. Have a nice day. Way to hijack what was a fun thread.

No, the "lifestyle" bit was specifically in reference to some gay pride parades which promote a promiscuous casual/anonymous sex lifestyle. In general my disagreement isn't about lifestyle, because I assume most gay men are probably a lot like me: they like Mad Men, they insult their friends in jest, they try not to be jerks, etc. My disagreement in general is with regard to sexual values--specifically, whether or not homosexual sex acts are morally good or not.

And don't try to make all sexual values equivalent to racism. Is it like being racist to disapprove of adultery? Is it like being racist to disapprove of lying to someone in order to get them to sleep with you?

Most people have particular sexual values. Ours differ.


Also, differences in sex are distinct from differences in race. Having the Boy Scouts is not the same as having the White Scouts.

[RW_9]

I used the racism example because of the similarities. You claim to not have a problem with gay people, but just think it's immoral for them to have sex. That is incredibly similar to someone claiming to not have a problem with a particular race, but just don't want them to mix with others.

Frankly, this issue will only be decided by the evolution of the social consciousness. The parallel to the civil rights movement is quite staggering, just with less widespread systematic violence.

Saying that being gay isn't wrong as long as they don't act on it is just as much pure bigotry as any other kind, but it is so ingrained in people's minds due to its religious foundation (another similarity with the old arguments against interracial marriage) that it won't go away until the bigots themselves die off.

And having the Straight Scouts is the same as having the White Scouts, for all morally intensive purposes.

And I never said you can't voice your opinion. Just expect a backlash, as some people tend to get that way regarding blatant bigotry.

[Doubting Thomas]

And you're lumping me in with them because I put a different normative moral value on homosexual sex than you do.

No, I lump you in with them because you're coming off as a homophobic bigot. That if someone has different ideas from you about what kind of sexual practices are OK to do, then they must be wrong and sinful. What does it matter to you if two gay people have sex with each other? Even if your god is real and he really doesn't like gay sex, isn't that his problem to deal with and not yours?

[Rokcet Scientist]

"God hates fags" because Phelps is obviously a closet specimen.

[SleepingDemon]

I think having the ability to say whatever you wish, good or bad, is vastly more important to keep intact than to shave off a bit here and there to accommodate delicate sensibilities.

However, there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 laws and codes in the US pertaining to married people, and it is repulsive that a nation proud of its freedoms denies these rights to a certain group of consenting adults. In that respect, it mirrors the civil rights movement and women's suffrage.

Your philosophical reasons for disagreeing with homosexual sex are yours to keep, but they are still philosophical in nature, not based upon anything more than a belief system which we at this forum do not respect or value. It was wrong for southern white males to bully black people, women, and immigrants, and to deny them equal rights, as it is wrong for our current government to deny people equal rights for similar reasons.

The purpose of these parades is to promote equality, and if that process is often exaggerated or overly flamboyant simply for the purpose of getting attention, then so be it. In this country, you have to be loud and abrasive for things to change.

[KichigaiNeko]

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Oh I think that theists are just jealous...They can't look this good in sequins..

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Sydney's Mardi Gras started off as a GLBT pride parade and has snow balled into a wonderful annual function bringing millions of tourist dollars into Sydney annually. Funnily enough though, apparently it is held on Shrove Tuesday? or some such religious non-sense (or may be that is where the name came from. Anyway... tickets and functions are here.
http://www.mardigras.org.au/mardi-gras-2012/index.cfm