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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm
(June 14, 2012 at 3:42 pm)Drich Wrote: (June 14, 2012 at 9:38 am)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: If your parents raised you on the basis that you had to love them or they'd set you on fire, I bet you'd think that was an okay system.
You seem to not completely comprehend the choice you have been given. God isn't offering the choice you just mentioned. You were born destined to destruction. God offers those who do not want that for themselves an opportunity not to have to endure it.
So he expects us to fear suffering and run his arms? Does this mean I should set a girls house on fire, and block the exits until she declares love for me? She has a choice. Burn to death or love me. By your logic, If she chooses wrong it's all her fault.
This is stupid
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm
(This post was last modified: June 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm by Drich.)
(June 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm sure there are laws against "advertizers" selling something nonexistent too.
But there is nothing wrong with selling something that not everyone gets. Or simply doesn't want.
(June 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: So he expects us to fear suffering and run his arms? Noope. Christ Himself illustrates it like you have been invited to a rich man's wedding feast. You either go or you don't.
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm
First it must be demonstrated that the product exists before we can even approach whether it's necessary, or even desirable.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 4:37 pm
(June 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm)Stimbo Wrote: First it must be demonstrated that the product exists before we can even approach whether it's necessary, or even desirable.
Actually no. Products are advertised and sold all the time that do not exist. x-ray specs as found in the back of old comic books and 99% of everything in my spam folder come right to mind right off.
'We'(christianity) do not have to prove anything as that is God's responsiablity. Our only task is to tell whom ever seeks out God where and how to look.
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm
(This post was last modified: June 14, 2012 at 4:54 pm by Cyberman.)
Since the product I was referring to is the "God offer" of which you spoke, your equating it to x-ray specs (which do, or at least did, exist but don't work as advertised, hence misleading) and scams intended to fleece the gullible is an amazingly à propos admission. I believe the Chess terminology is selfmate.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 4:57 pm
(This post was last modified: June 14, 2012 at 5:00 pm by Brian37.)
(June 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm)Drich Wrote: (June 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'm sure there are laws against "advertizers" selling something nonexistent too.
But there is nothing wrong with selling something that not everyone gets. Or simply doesn't want.
(June 14, 2012 at 4:17 pm)Adjusted Sanity Wrote: So he expects us to fear suffering and run his arms? Noope. Christ Himself illustrates it like you have been invited to a rich man's wedding feast. You either go or you don't.
Sounds like Jesus would fit right in with the Republicans who have the policy of corporate welfare where big oil gets tax brakes off the backs of the taxes of the middle class and poor.
So if you want to ask me if I want to hang out with a rich person with that attitude, then no thanks would be my response.
And since when does being wealthy by itself constitute morality? Gaddafi was rich and owned stock in GE. I wouldn't want to hang out with that monster.
Your god character is nothing but a threat/bribe system. There is no morality in simply threatening people or bribing them.
You want me to fall for a promise when the head character is unwilling to share power or give up power to the consent of those he governs.
That is what Mafia bosses do. They will treat you well and get you connected if you kiss their ass, but if you step out of line they have you murdered.
That is hardly what I would call moral.
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 5:59 pm
I think there are so many problems with the Bible and Christian thinking... it's not just a facepalm.. you may as well just never remove your hand from your forehead!! 
Logical fallacies, scientific errors, historical errors... to be honest I've pretty much given up!!
However, the historical evidence for Jesus is of interest to me. I've been learning a lot about that. It is hard to know for sure, but I can definitely see a good case on both sides for the life and possibly also abilities of Jesus. At the very least he was an interesting man/myth!
"Minds are like parachutes - they both work best when open."
My favourite pro-atheism video - [amoff]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQJrud71gL8[/amoff]
My favourite pro-theism video - [amoff]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhGRD25h2A[/amoff]
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 14, 2012 at 9:45 pm
(This post was last modified: June 14, 2012 at 9:49 pm by Drich.)
(June 14, 2012 at 4:51 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Since the product I was referring to is the "God offer" of which you spoke, your equating it to x-ray specs (which do, or at least did, exist but don't work as advertised, hence misleading) and scams intended to fleece the gullible is an amazingly à propos admission.
Again, it is possiable to sell something not everyone wants or gets. X-ray specs are such an item. In that not everyone got them. The people who were disappointed with them, (Thought they did not work) were the people who wanted to use them to see through cloths, or into other peoples homes. (In short those who wanted to abuse the ablity these 'glasses' to their own advantage.) If you ever got a pair you would notice that the lens were red. The red lens allowed one to see through special light red print to see a light blue line, that would not be visable otherwise. The red lens would cancel out the red of the print allowing one to see though the static of the print, like an x-ray, to see a picture an outline in blue/purple. (If you had transformers in the 80's the same principle was used on the tech specs that told you of your new TF ablities.)
God or rather the general understanding of Him and religion is very simliar, to X-ray Specs. In that those looking to exploit God or 'religion' for personal gain will only be disappointed, and say to themselves and others that God (because He did not performed as they intended) does not exist. Much like the glasses, the problem was not the glasses themselves, it just the 'product' would not/does not lend itself to personal exploitation, and can only be used as instructed.
Quote:I believe the Chess terminology is selfmate.
(June 14, 2012 at 4:57 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (June 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm)Drich Wrote: But there is nothing wrong with selling something that not everyone gets. Or simply doesn't want.
Noope. Christ Himself illustrates it like you have been invited to a rich man's wedding feast. You either go or you don't.
Sounds like Jesus would fit right in with the Republicans who have the policy of corporate welfare where big oil gets tax brakes off the backs of the taxes of the middle class and poor.
So if you want to ask me if I want to hang out with a rich person with that attitude, then no thanks would be my response.
And since when does being wealthy by itself constitute morality? Gaddafi was rich and owned stock in GE. I wouldn't want to hang out with that monster.
Your god character is nothing but a threat/bribe system. There is no morality in simply threatening people or bribing them.
You want me to fall for a promise when the head character is unwilling to share power or give up power to the consent of those he governs.
That is what Mafia bosses do. They will treat you well and get you connected if you kiss their ass, but if you step out of line they have you murdered.
That is hardly what I would call moral.
Again 'morality' is a meaningless standard, that allow self righteous people the illusion of high ground. If you wish to judge God from your 'high ground' then you are completely free to do so. Just know the same standard in which you use to judge others will be used to judge you.
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2012 at 1:32 pm by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
Quote: Again 'morality' is a meaningless standard, that allow self righteous people the illusion of high ground. If you wish to judge God from your 'high ground' then you are completely free to do so. Just know the same standard in which you use to judge others will be used to judge you.
Let's see:
Let's see: Your mythical character:
Commits mass planetary genocide
Condones slavery, incest, rape, hatred of others for non-belief in superstitions
Forces the ones it supposedly loves into lose-lose dilemmas, punishes them cruelly and eternally for acting as it "intelligently designed" them to.
I ain't worried.
(June 14, 2012 at 3:45 pm)Drich Wrote: Then perhaps you should stop looking at religion for answers.
Yes, because that's what we come to an atheist forum to do: to look to religion for answers.
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RE: I mostly believed Christianity briefly recently... you know what hurt the most?
June 16, 2012 at 5:13 pm
The reason you wasted your time talking to yourself in hopes of not wanting others to suffer is simple. EVOLUTION produces compassion and there is no human that cannot or does not exhibit that to some degree to those around them.
We as a species do that most with that which we are close to much more than that which is not close to us. We have a tendency to give more compassion to that which we are familiar with than those far away from us.
It is not weird at all. I don't care what label or what political part or what nation someone comes from, the individual will at a minimum, look at an "injustice" and not want harm to come to another human, whatever the reason. The problem with that is that we have not learned to see ourselves as the same species, and as long as labels take priority over knowledge of evolution, our species will exhibit compassion at a much greater bias degree.
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