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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 10:50 am
(September 4, 2012 at 10:43 am)Rhythm Wrote: A major nitpick with the idea that any god would simply have to possess greater power and knowledge (or whatever) than what it created. Specifically with regards to a "got the ball rolling" god.
The key word here, is entropy.
In a similar vein, can a robot design and built a robot that is better than itself? If so, lock one in a room with the raw materials and come back in a few years (enough for successive generations)... and unlock the door and expect to meet a god.
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 10:53 am
(September 4, 2012 at 9:48 am)stephenmills1000 Wrote: This was not an argument to justify such a being's existence, only the attributes it would necessarily possess to be what was described previously. You may freely treat it hypothetically. Also, if the being was contingent upon something else, then that being would have greater power, and thus be the subject of this discussion.
In that light, would you agree then?
Like I said, no. Merely being the cause of something is no indication of that being's power or knowledge.
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 11:10 am
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 11:13 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Entropy/enclave. Perhaps if you took a look in another few billion years all complexity will have been extinguished one way or another -granted. But for now (and for the snapshot we refer to when we attach the idea of a creator god to ourselves) it's entirely plausible that what we see around us is more complicated, knowledgeable, and powerful than whatever caused it.
Can a robot design and build a robot better than itself..an emphatic "yes". There's nothing preventing it from doing so, even if it doesn't have any idea of what it's doing. All you need are a series of pass fail/loops and replication. How do you think we got here, lol? At no point would I expect to find a god, to be honest, upon opening that door, just an upgrade.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 11:33 am
None of these possibilities however, necessarily go anywhere to refute the possibility of God's existence. God would be an unemobodied mind or consciousness. It has no "parts" or "pieces," so you wouldn't get any more simple than that I presume. This does not preclude God's thoughts and ideas- the functions of the mind- from being complex themselves.
But if one does not want to concede the argument, fair enough. In getting back to the matter at hand, in what then, if anything ought we base our morality in, if not God?
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 11:42 am
(September 4, 2012 at 11:33 am)stephenmills1000 Wrote: None of these possibilities however, necessarily go anywhere to refute the possibility of God's existence. Why should they, there's no need.
Quote: God would be an unemobodied mind or consciousness.
Why? Because that's what your fairy tales have led you to believe? Well excuse me for being entirely unimpressed with that.
Quote: It has no "parts" or "pieces," so you wouldn't get any more simple than that I presume. This does not preclude God's thoughts and ideas- the functions of the mind- from being complex themselves.
Yet, as just a couple of simple examples should have made clear, they are not required to be so to get the ball rolling, nor is such a cause required to even have thoughts or ideas.
Quote:But if one does not want to concede the argument, fair enough. In getting back to the matter at hand, in what then, if anything ought we base our morality in, if not God?
-If not god- doesn't even get consideration at this point. Perhaps it could have; if religious folks had devised better gods for themselves, but alas, they did not. I'd take waffle flavored morality over god flavored morality at this point. At least when pressed, the wafflist can point to the damn waffle.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 12:18 pm
(September 4, 2012 at 11:33 am)stephenmills1000 Wrote: None of these possibilities however, necessarily go anywhere to refute the possibility of God's existence. God would be an unemobodied mind or consciousness. It has no "parts" or "pieces," so you wouldn't get any more simple than that I presume. This does not preclude God's thoughts and ideas- the functions of the mind- from being complex themselves.
Considering your statement that your argument was never about god's possible existence, why should the counter-arguments address them?
(September 4, 2012 at 11:33 am)stephenmills1000 Wrote: But if one does not want to concede the argument, fair enough. In getting back to the matter at hand, in what then, if anything ought we base our morality in, if not God?
How about the actual reality we live in?
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 12:25 pm
(September 4, 2012 at 2:32 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: LOL "for some reason or another". You know precisely why I won't engage you seriously. But please, go ahead and be a disingenuous twat and claim you don't.
You're engaging with me now, in open self-contradiction to your own previous statement.
Why should I take such an openly self-contradictory person seriously?
(September 4, 2012 at 2:31 am)Boccaccio Wrote: (September 3, 2012 at 7:48 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Boccacio, your wit sounds like it was plagiarized from the business end of a used toilet brush. It was original shit just for you.
By the way, either you lie or you are as thick as a brick.
(September 4, 2012 at 1:54 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: I have not seen a single post point out a flaw in my thinking.
... I don't think anyone has even dared to engage any of my serious posts in any cogent, coherent manner. I have raised questions and evidence for you and also provided relevant comments and research in response to Polaris and to Atom. Zero response from Vinny, who either does not understand or does not want to do so.
I guess trolls don't learn to read, so here is a place to practise your blasphemy.
I must have responded. Or ignored it because it wasn't worth my time. But if I see something serious, like apothecary's posts, I will respond.
(September 4, 2012 at 3:07 am)Red Celt Wrote: (September 4, 2012 at 1:54 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: I have not seen a single post point out a flaw in my thinking.
What. The. Fuck?
What colour is the sky where you are?
What's with the personal attacks?
(September 4, 2012 at 3:43 am)genkaus Wrote: (September 4, 2012 at 1:54 am)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: I have not seen a single post point out a flaw in my thinking.
And you're blaming us for your poor eyesight?
Genkaus, stop with the personal attacks.
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 12:34 pm
(September 4, 2012 at 12:25 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Genkaus, stop with the personal attacks.
Then stop ignoring posts that aren't personal attacks.
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 12:38 pm
(September 4, 2012 at 12:34 pm)genkaus Wrote: (September 4, 2012 at 12:25 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Genkaus, stop with the personal attacks.
Then stop ignoring posts that aren't personal attacks.
Then point out substantial, not-attacking posts you are making.
They get lost in your barrage of ad hominems, and I'm not so patient as to waste hours of my time sifting through personal attacks to find the needle of a good post in a haystack of "LOL U SUK" posts.
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RE: Where do atheists get their morality from?
September 4, 2012 at 12:47 pm
(This post was last modified: September 4, 2012 at 12:47 pm by genkaus.)
(September 4, 2012 at 12:38 pm)Vincenzo "Vinny" G. Wrote: Then point out substantial, not-attacking posts you are making.
They get lost in your barrage of ad hominems, and I'm not so patient as to waste hours of my time sifting through personal attacks to find the needle of a good post in a haystack of "LOL U SUK" posts.
Look at posts #116 and #121. And learn how to use the search function or the threaded mode.
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