Oh god, someone please help me refute this video.

[Ziploc Surprise]

David Barton is disengenuous. Chris Rodda has done an excellent job of combatting the myth of the United States having been founded as a Christian nation. I recommend her book "Liars for Jesus: The Religious Right's Alternate Version of American History."

She also runs a blog. Here's a link to her blog, already filtered for David Barton content.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/?s=dav...on&x=0&y=0

Are you aware that David Barton's latest book, "The Jefferson Lies", was pulled by its publisher due to its many historical errors? Also, other conservative Christians such as Warren Throckmorton have actually led the charge against Barton's abuses. http://wthrockmorton.com/

Share this with your FB buddies. If they still insist on the Christian nation bullshit, at least you know what type of idiot you are dealing with.

Thanks, I think I'll be able to use this information. BTW the reason why this video is so aggravating to me is the guy keeps bringing it up in new debates. It's got so many errors in it I can't chase down every little thing.

---

All right, I'll try to do some basic points:

* The Aitken Bible was the first Bible to be printed on U.S. Soil, but it was not published by the U.S. Congress. It was only endorsed, and even then mainly as a way of helping out the burgeoning U.S. Printing industry.
* I have found no evidence to support the assumption that the painting of "The Landing of Columbus" was done to promote Christianity, and besides, if this is supposed to endorse Christianity today, why not also use it to support slavery like Columbus inflicted on the Taino people of "San Salvador."
* The way I've looked at the whole "church services in the Capitol," It seems like they're really just ecumenical events, and there's no evidence that Thomas Jefferson had any role in making it happen, nor in ordering the Marine Band to play the services, although he did attend on occasion.
* James Garfield stopped preaching at the time he went to Congress in 1862.
* About Thomas Jefferson and the Kaskaskia, look here.
*When he says "Seminary or Bible school degrees," he interprets the phrase very loosely. To hear him speak, all Harvard or Yale degrees are in divinity.

Thanks Rev. I can use this info too.

---

+1 cato123

One specific point I'm aware of @0:42: all books printed at the time for use in schools had Congressional endorsement. The fact that the bible was amongst those books is not an indication that the government endorsed any particular religion, rather that the government wanted a particular curriculum in place.

Generally, I give this vid a big, slow 'so what?' right up the arse. The individual beliefs of the founding fathers is irrelevant to the point of the superiority of secularism over theocracy. To suggest so is nothing more than an argument from authority.

The problem with this is the guy I'm debating with will say that the Founding Fathers wanted to Bible to be taught in school....because it was a Christian nation. He's twisty like that.

[Minimalist]

Barton is not disingenuous. Barton is a fucking liar.

Obviously, Drippy likes being lied to. Part of his whole creed.

http://wthrockmorton.com/2012/09/04/davi...f-schools/

Aitken certainly seemed to think the United States should regulate Christianity in some manner, at the least to establish an approved version of the Scriptures. However, Congress did not respond favorably to all of his requests. Aitken was not appointed to be the official Bible printer. Instead, a committee turned the Bible over to the chaplains to check the accuracy of the work. The chaplains reported back that the Bible was indeed accurate and recommended it. As the first English Bible the America, it was quite a milestone but it was not printed or paid for by Congress. To get the story as it is printed in the records of Congress, I have thumbnails of all three pages pertaining to the Aitken Bible (click to read them).

[Faith No More]

I saw that the video was David Barton speaking and immediately stopped considering he has been outed as a disingenuous, revisionist wanker. I think that should do to refute this.

[Reforged]

WOW This is the best youtube video I've ever seen!!! Thanks Ziploc that was a surprize! I am alittle prouder to be an American now

Sometimes I'd give anything to be able to slap you in the face with my penis Drich.
Just sayin'.

[TaraJo]

Silly.

The writings of Thomas Paine were inspirational early in our nation and he was EXTREMELY hostile towards Christianity. Most of the founding fathers were more deists than Christians. It's also interesting that he quoted Thomas Jefferson because ol' Jeffy also said this:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.

and also.....

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

and don't forget this....

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

and a whole list of others. I mean, hell, he even went so far as compile his own version of the Bible with all the unnecessary myths taken out and all that's left is the moral philosophy of Jesus. I still might not agree with it, but, damn, looking at it as a philosophy instead of as a religion makes a whole fuck of a lot more sense.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

WOW This is the best youtube video I've ever seen!!! Thanks Ziploc that was a surprize! I am alittle prouder to be an American now

Sometimes I'd give anything to be able to slap you in the face with my penis Drich.
Just sayin'.

Now you're just building up his marytr complex!

[Simon Moon]

Barton is not disingenuous. Barton is a fucking liar.

Bingo.

Calling Barton disingenuous is an insult to the disingenuous.

Liar is the only description that fits.

Here's just a small example of Barton's dishonesty -

http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/0...-this-one/

[Ziploc Surprise]

Just an update if anyone is interested. My FB friend who keeps using this as evidence that the U.S. was and is a Christian country posted his crap and then two days later went on a week long cruiz. It's kind of like a spew and run. I'm sure he'll be back with the video though.

Funny thing about this guy is that he's not dumb. He's sort of like the internet on dial up (he's over 60 so his slowness is excusable). He knows so many odd things and he's one of the few religious wack jobs on FB who can withstand long debates with me. Unfortunatly though he knows a lot he isn't bothered by seriously illegitimate sources and he is untrusting of any legitimate source if that source disagrees with his wacky politics and religious beliefs.

Oh, and BTW I just downloaded Chris Rodda's book and read the first few pages. Looks like it's going to be an interesting read.

[Tino]

I don't know why I do this but I debate with people on Facebook about issues like the separation of church and state. I have a friend of mine who has used this video against me several times. I can't seem to get past this with logical arguments and I don't have time to chase down all this bullshit. I can do some but this is a lot of crap. Help please.

What is the claim they're making that the video is supposed to support?

---

My FB friend who keeps using this as evidence that the U.S. was and is a Christian country posted his crap and then two days later went on a week long cruiz.

How does he define a "christian country"?

If you're going to argue with this guy you've got to nail down the arguments into specifics.

[Ziploc Surprise]

I don't know why I do this but I debate with people on Facebook about issues like the separation of church and state. I have a friend of mine who has used this video against me several times. I can't seem to get past this with logical arguments and I don't have time to chase down all this bullshit. I can do some but this is a lot of crap. Help please.

What is the claim they're making that the video is supposed to support?

---

My FB friend who keeps using this as evidence that the U.S. was and is a Christian country posted his crap and then two days later went on a week long cruiz.

How does he define a "christian country"?

If you're going to argue with this guy you've got to nail down the arguments into specifics.

To put a little background to this the person I was debating with was spewing out the crap that the constitution of the U.S. does not have a separation of church and state. I say that the establishment clause implies a separation because you can't really follow the clause without the separation of church and state. In past debates we have been back and forth on this issue and I've been killing him on this. Then he finds this video about Barton and asks me about what country's money I spend (in reference to "In God We Trust" that is printed on our) . I don't have the time to get sucked in to this so I discredit Barton and the video. We go back and forth about it. Then on a separate post (I believe it was two) he uses the same video against me. He's taunting me and asking me why I haven't answered his question. I really didn't have the time to debate in depth on this and I really want to continue the attack on the person behind the video -Barton. It's at that point I ask for help on Athiest Forums. Y'all have a wider knowledge base than I do and I thought I should tap into this. So then I get the information I need -actually I get more than I needed and I wind up buying a book about ii- and I'm ready to continue the debate and the person I'm debating with goes on vacation. When he comes back and he thinks I can't fight the video he'll be back with it.