It's a trap!

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

Seriously, this thread is a trap.


I joined this forum becuase I googled it and it seemed like a better alternative to the other (seemingly more hostile) atheist websites.



I would like to discuss several topics here and get feedback. This is mostly just because my faith (haha) in humanity keeps getting shot down time and time again.


If it's not Christians and their hate rant then it's Islam, Judaism (spell check?) and atheism.


I've simply come to the conclusion that stupid runs in all families. Which is funny because I've found a lot of atheist who claim that they are smarter than religious people. This turns out to be incorrect a lot more often than you think.

I'd like to start off with stating the obvious:

Not all Christians are stupid.

Not all Atheists are smart.


Now that that's been established we can get to the base of the issue.

Why all of the hate? I understand it's a part of humanity. Not everyone is perfect. But for a leading belief in atheism to be that they are smarter than Christians they certainly don't act like it.
I understand this is subjective. But I also know I'm going to get a lot of the people that fall under this catagory respinding to this thread. Which is what I'm hoping for.

Tell me:

Why do you dislike religion? (or state if you're indifferant with an example of your indifferance)


How did you come to believe (or not) in your current deity?

What has been your worst experience with Christians?

What has been your most pleasant experience with Christians?


FYI, my spelling and grammar are not top notch. I apologize in advance for the atrocity. (Yes, I know it's spelt wrong. No, I'm not spell checking right now because I'm too lazy)

[Polaris]

Most atheist websites do not represent even one percent of one percent of the unbelievers living in this world and especially less since the websites you probably tend to visit are populated by Americans who act very much differently than their mainland European counterparts not to mention unbelievers living in Africa and Asia.

The atheists you probably have met (you in essence labeled them as hateful) are pretty much the other side of a coin called ignorance shared by religious fundamentalists. They use the same logical fallacies and advocate for less-than-liberal policies to push their ideology. Most unbelievers are just content to live their lives and I have not met anyone in person that was hateful against religion....they simply just do not believe and that is all there is to it really.

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

Thank you for your response! I was hoping you'd answer my questions in the format I displayed above. But oh well.
As a nonbeliever with a completely unbiased view (besides the above stated where I have explained my frustrating encounters), I have time and time again found similarities between Christians and Atheists. The same ones.

I have found countless verbal attacks over the internet from both sides. I'm simply trying to delve deeper and discover more about this phenomonon. Haven't we eveolved past this? Am I alone in this? I completely understand the driving Evolutionary forced behind human nature. But I've also found myself thinking outside of it and thinking before speaking.


Example:

Chris the typical Christian: Atheism sucks! Atheist just like to hear themselves talk. Oh LORD in HEAVEN, shine down YOUR Holy Light and show the lost their way! (insert bible verse here)

Angelina the typical Atheist: You're just being ignorant! You're god is primitive and immoral. (insert long and rude paragraph about how Christians and all religions are fake)

Do you see the similarities? We as a community need to stop acting on impulse. When we see stuff like this. It only hurts us and throws fuel to the fire.

And this doesn't only occur on Dawkins, JREF and other forums, but it gets especially heated on facebook, meetme andother social websites. When you scroll through argument after argument and find that both perties have lowered themselves to a level of immaturity that they both look bad; you start to question your species.

Anyways. Just explaining why I'm asking these questions.

[Phish]

Why do you dislike religion?
I don't hate religion but i sure hate religious followers!

Religion just sounds stupid,why would you base your believes on a book that was written thousands of years ago,and with no scientific prof.?
Now you may say that religion is helping to make laws but every family, gang, tribe, nation, has rules of behaviour - every group develops rules.
It starts in the home - you wouldn't spit on your mother's bed would you?
Were you told specifically not to or did you just work it out?
Surely it's not mentioned in bibel, huh?


How did you come to believe (or not) in your current deity?
I think, therefore I am an atheist.

What has been your worst experience with Christians?
thousands of wars,suffering,hate speeches,slowing our scientific progress, sexism,....

What has been your most pleasant experience with Christians?
none

In 1999,christian sociologist George Barna published this results from his study of divorce rate
Here are some interesting data about christians:
Born again christian
27 % chance of divorce
Atheist and Agnostics
21% chance of divorce

christians make up 75% of the USA population.
christians make up 75% of the prison population
-Federal bureaof prisons 1997

[festive1]

Tell me:

Why do you dislike religion? (or state if you're indifferant with an example of your indifferance)

In some cases it makes people go against their better judgement. My example of this is my mother. She was Catholic and in an abusive relationship with my father. She stayed even though she says she wanted to leave, but her priest counseled her against it, telling her that divorce was an affront to god.
All the battles fought in the name of religion. The current upset in the Middle East for example.
The suspension of reality needed in order to accept religion as true. All those miracles don't sit well with me. My experience with biblical literalists is not good.
The level of hypocrisy many Christians show.

How did you come to believe (or not) in your current deity?

Here's a link to my explanation of my loss of faith:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-14048.html

What has been your worst experience with Christians?

Hmmm... Turn or burn fliers showing up in my locker multiple times each week throughout high school... My "best friend" in 6th grade telling me she couldn't be my friend anymore, because, she couldn't be friends with someone who was going to spend eternity "burning in hell." Being told a million times, "I'm going to pray for you," talk about judgement... Getting kicked out of Sunday School at age 6 or 7 for asking too many questions... Take your pick...

What has been your most pleasant experience with Christians?

Outside of a religious context, some can be downright nice and helpful. I tend not to go on anti-religious rants around those I don't know well or those I know are religious. But I don't hide my lack of belief. If they bring it up and ask why I don't have faith, I'll tell them my views and experience.

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

Why do you dislike religion?
I don't hate religion but i sure hate religious followers!

Religion just sounds stupid,why would you base your believes on a book that was written thousands of years ago,and with no scientific prof.?
Now you may say that religion is helping to make laws but every family, gang, tribe, nation, has rules of behaviour - every group develops rules.
It starts in the home - you wouldn't spit on your mother's bed would you?
Were you told specifically not to or did you just work it out?
Surely it's not mentioned in bibel, huh?


How did you come to believe (or not) in your current deity?
I think, therefore I am an atheist.

What has been your worst experience with Christians?
thousands of wars,suffering,hate speeches,slowing our scientific progress, sexism,....

What has been your most pleasant experience with Christians?
none

Thank you for your response!

I am afraid I have to disagree with your attitude. It's your life and I respect that. But it's this sort of approach and attitude that gives atheism an unfair name. Not attacking you. But a lot of atheists share your attitude and like to proclaim it at every chance they can.

I have a point.

Who cares? Yes, religion is the cause of many bad things that have happened throughout history. No I don't approve of any actions taken by the extremists that don't benefit me or others I care about. But if we want equal acceptance, if we want to actually do something useful then one of us has to make the first (mature) move and be the 'better person'.


I'm not saying the crimes of the past should be forgiven and forgotten. But let's learn from them instead of using it as an excuse to harbor anger and hate. :/

[Phish]

Why do you dislike religion?
I don't hate religion but i sure hate religious followers!

Religion just sounds stupid,why would you base your believes on a book that was written thousands of years ago,and with no scientific prof.?
Now you may say that religion is helping to make laws but every family, gang, tribe, nation, has rules of behaviour - every group develops rules.
It starts in the home - you wouldn't spit on your mother's bed would you?
Were you told specifically not to or did you just work it out?
Surely it's not mentioned in bibel, huh?


How did you come to believe (or not) in your current deity?
I think, therefore I am an atheist.

What has been your worst experience with Christians?
thousands of wars,suffering,hate speeches,slowing our scientific progress, sexism,....

What has been your most pleasant experience with Christians?
none

Thank you for your response!

I am afraid I have to disagree with your attitude. It's your life and I respect that. But it's this sort of approach and attitude that gives atheism an unfair name. Not attacking you. But a lot of atheists share your attitude and like to proclaim it at every chance they can.

I have a point.

Who cares? Yes, religion is the cause of many bad things that have happened throughout history. No I don't approve of any actions taken by the extremists that don't benefit me or others I care about. But if we want equal acceptance, if we want to actually do something useful then one of us has to make the first (mature) move and be the 'better person'.


I'm not saying the crimes of the past should be forgiven and forgotten. But let's learn from them instead of using it as an excuse to harbor anger and hate. :/

1. If you want to change the world you need to act like an complete dick to anyone that does not agree with you.
2. Those extremists represents your religion,they have killed for your "god",your faith is cowered in blood,of innocent man and woman.

[Polaris]

Actually militant atheists vandalize, but that seems about it for the moment. In the past, more militant secularist leaders resorted to some of the worst atrocities ever seen. They've quickly fallen out of favor with their populations.

One good thing about religion is that it has been a useful tool throughout human history to control a population without the need for nearly as much violent force.

[SeekerOfKnowledge]

Tell me:

Why do you dislike religion? (or state if you're indifferant with an example of your indifferance)

In some cases it makes people go against their better judgement. My example of this is my mother. She was Catholic and in an abusive relationship with my father. She stayed even though she says she wanted to leave, but her priest counseled her against it, telling her that divorce was an affront to god.
All the battles fought in the name of religion. The current upset in the Middle East for example.
The suspension of reality needed in order to accept religion as true. All those miracles don't sit well with me. My experience with biblical literalists is not good.
The level of hypocrisy many Christians show.

I understand. It must have been very hard on you. :[

How did you come to believe (or not) in your current deity?

Here's a link to my explanation of my loss of faith:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-14048.html

That's a very sad story and it makes sense that you have the views you do. You're lucky to have figured it out so early, though.

What has been your worst experience with Christians?

Hmmm... Turn or burn fliers showing up in my locker multiple times each week throughout high school... My "best friend" in 6th grade telling me she couldn't be my friend anymore, because, she couldn't be friends with someone who was going to spend eternity "burning in hell." Being told a million times, "I'm going to pray for you," talk about judgement... Getting kicked out of Sunday School at age 6 or 7 for asking too many questions... Take your pick...

I'm appalled by such behavior! I still get those "I'll pray for you" or "You're in my prayers" from family members and family friends. I shrug it off with an "Okay..." and a sarcastic view from friends but I still appreciate the thought behind it from my family members (who do not know I'm without a faith). I also lost one of my friends from my beliefs. She was happy and excited to get back in contact with me. But she ignored me after I told her I was atheist. And wouldn't even give me church directions when I had a free night and felt like giggling through a sermon (stifling boasts of hysterics).

What has been your most pleasant experience with Christians?

Outside of a religious context, some can be downright nice and helpful. I tend not to go on anti-religious rants around those I don't know well or those I know are religious. But I don't hide my lack of belief. If they bring it up and ask why I don't have faith, I'll tell them my views and experience.

[/quote]

I've also had some very good experiences with christians. I was going in for surgery (I had an inflamed gangreous galbladder[thanks mom]) and she offered to pray for me before surgory. It might have been the morphine, but for some reason it really touched me. :/


Overall, thank you for sharing your information with me. I've logged it for future reference.

---

Thank you for your response!

I am afraid I have to disagree with your attitude. It's your life and I respect that. But it's this sort of approach and attitude that gives atheism an unfair name. Not attacking you. But a lot of atheists share your attitude and like to proclaim it at every chance they can.

I have a point.

Who cares? Yes, religion is the cause of many bad things that have happened throughout history. No I don't approve of any actions taken by the extremists that don't benefit me or others I care about. But if we want equal acceptance, if we want to actually do something useful then one of us has to make the first (mature) move and be the 'better person'.


I'm not saying the crimes of the past should be forgiven and forgotten. But let's learn from them instead of using it as an excuse to harbor anger and hate. :/

1. If you want to change the world you need to act like an complete dick to anyone that does not agree with you.
2. Those extremists represents your religion,they have killed for your "god",your faith is cowered in blood,of innocent man and woman.

I have no gods. :|

I'm atheist, dude.

I'm just trying to rationalize all this hate and get it sent in a better direction. Stuff like opposing the ground zero cross because it's offensive is retarded. Don't give Christians the power to stir such a reaction from you. I realize it must be hard but try and view it as hitting their level and fighting fire with fire. It just sets fire to everything else and causes destruction.

We need salt. People who are willing to put their hate aside and speak for both sides. A neutral.

---

Thank you for your response!

I am afraid I have to disagree with your attitude. It's your life and I respect that. But it's this sort of approach and attitude that gives atheism an unfair name. Not attacking you. But a lot of atheists share your attitude and like to proclaim it at every chance they can.

I have a point.

Who cares? Yes, religion is the cause of many bad things that have happened throughout history. No I don't approve of any actions taken by the extremists that don't benefit me or others I care about. But if we want equal acceptance, if we want to actually do something useful then one of us has to make the first (mature) move and be the 'better person'.


I'm not saying the crimes of the past should be forgiven and forgotten. But let's learn from them instead of using it as an excuse to harbor anger and hate. :/

1. If you want to change the world you need to act like an complete dick to anyone that does not agree with you.
2. Those extremists represents your religion,they have killed for your "god",your faith is cowered in blood,of innocent man and woman.

Also, A militant Atheist would be better described as being in front of the computer posting on forums (haha) or out picketing signs for equal rights.

---

Actually militant atheists vandalize, but that seems about it for the moment. In the past, more militant secularist leaders resorted to some of the worst atrocities ever seen. They've quickly fallen out of favor with their populations.

One good thing about religion is that it has been a useful tool throughout human history to control a population without the need for nearly as much violent force.

I agree 100%

Christianity is a good tool to a degree. Most Christians aren't by Bible definition Christians and are what fundies call Sunday Christians.
Only going to church out of fear of punishment (haha the irony) or on holidays where there's banquets or game raffles.

Luckily, we have the Sunday Christians to help even out the more extreme ones. They tend to be the ones okay with equal rights etc,.

[Mystic]

I think religion is too broad to generalize, but since this is about Christianity, I will post what I dislike about it.

The first thing is this concept that it produces that God favors a certain people and takes their side over other people. This is through out the bible with God choosing the Jews over and above other nations. It wasn't like the Jews were the only oppressed people to ever exist. Why does he choose them, well because of being offspring of Abraham primarily.

Then he tells them to do all sorts of things we find to be repulsive today, but people ignore all that as if that is not the morality taught by God.

The other thing is this double standard people take, they want to say to follow God, but at the same time, they don't want to follow his laws that apply to society and to be implemented by government. I find Christianity to be odd, in that, they take God's laws in the OT to be primitive, and then think they can come up with better laws then God. I feel this produces insincerity, or double think, instead of out right condemning the OT, they have this double standard, which they feel they have become better humans then God would have made his favored people if they had obeyed in him all instances. And that these people were not ready for better laws and guidance. It's just absurd.

Another I dislike about religion is the extent it plays on identity and creates this us vs them mentality. This is true of Christianity as well, when people whom disbelief in Christianity are not to embraced as equals.

Furthermore is that Christianity depicts this awful place of torment, and it's only farfetch interpretations that God would create a fire just to kill people he resurrects. Rather it seems the fire is eternal and that disbelievers will never have eternal life but be spiritually dead and to be tormented in flames. This concept of God creates a false sense of greatness, and then people attribute greatness, to having a cold stern attitude towards disbelievers.

I think the idea that God loves all humans but is going torture so many of them, to be absurd, and an absurd concept of love.

And with that, I would say, that Christianity blinds people towards true love and true greatness.

Since much of their identity is in giving glory to God, the image of that God, is invested in their ego.They become a mini version of that God....

And then feel like emotionally blackmailing you to accepting Jesus just like God does.

Another thing is that I believe the religion praises gullibility. Many Christians will believe out of gullibility, and be rewarded for it.

With superiority complex, to idenity, to us vs them, to torturing disbelievers is right beliefs...I think there is much reason to hate it.

Another thing I dislike about the religion is that it says not to love the world and the things in the world, and I feel this absurd. I know interpretations that make this to be fleshly or materialistic things, but even then, even then after ignoring the meaning of the word world, it's placing unrealistic conditions and describing a false reality where such people don't love God.