Why do you believe?

[CliveStaples]

I think you wanted to finish with "If all prayers work, you have evidence that disproves atheism." Otherwise, you fall into the coincidence well.

If it's just coincidence, then the prayer didn't work.

[pocaracas]

I think you wanted to finish with "If all prayers work, you have evidence that disproves atheism." Otherwise, you fall into the coincidence well.

If it's just coincidence, then the prayer didn't work.

Ah, I see... I thought you were going for the "if it works once, it's coincidence".
So it needs to work a lot of times (ideally, always) for the coincidence factor to be negligible.

[Whateverist]

Here's my point: Naturalism (atheism and materialism, essentially) entails that prayer never works--and when it "does", it's only coincidence.

So if any prayer ever works, you have evidence that disproves atheism.

That depends on why the prayer worked. It might well be that the act of prayer merely coincides with a healthful state of mind. Someone who prays might then experience healing for that reason rather than as a result of supernatural intercession.

I don't see how the occasional coincidence of what is prayed for with what in fact happens could possibly disprove atheism.

[genkaus]

Here's my point: Naturalism (atheism and materialism, essentially) entails that prayer never works--and when it "does", it's only coincidence.

So if any prayer ever works, you have evidence that disproves atheism.

Ofcourse, you first have to prove that it was the prayer that 'worked'.

[Kirbmarc]

If it's just coincidence, then the prayer didn't work

To prove that prayers work, they should increase the probability of what is asked coming true. A single event of what is asked coming true is not statistically relevant.

If I flip a coin 1000 times and it lands, say, 456 times head, it still doesn't prove that the probability of it landing on head isn't 50%.

But if it lands on head, say, 756 times, then I could say that the probability of it landing on head is probably more than 50%.

Statistic studies on the efficacy of prayers show that they don't work. The life span of individuals for who other people regularly pray for (like the British Royal Family, or people with very religious relatives) isn't longer than the general population (taking into account the level of medical care they receive).

[FutureAndAHope]

You said:

Well, if that's so, why don't you offer your services to the nearest hospital? Start as voluntary "work"... and see how it goes.

I have thought about going to hospitals. But to be honest I get a bit nervous about it. What I have done recently is to put posts on forums where people are sick,in the sickness section, asking if they would like prayer. Then if any one says yes I pray. I also pray when I meet sick people.

I have to agree with the guy who said there is no gaurentee that people will get well. God does seem to pick and choose who he heals. That said he still heals people as an example I have a friend who has done the following things, after he sought God for 30 days without eating:


A 6 month old baby who was about to have his life support turned off due to the fact his kidneys were severely defective. Healed instantly.

A who was involved in a car accident and suffered irreparable brain damage, healed even though he was 20 kilometers away as we prayed with his wife. Plus her frozen shoulder was healed and her arm grew again back to the size it was before the accident 15 years prior.

A adult male healed of paraplegia after being unable to walk for 21 years.

A 62 year old lady singer healed of a brain tumor in New Zealand.

A 70 year old lady healed of a broken back.

A 65 year old gold coast lady healed of osteoporosis, hadn’t walked in 3 years.

A 28 year old gold coast male healed of an arm which had been fused together and told he “would never rotate it again”

You can talk to him at http://shiloh.org.au

He has more success than me in prayer. Different christians have different gifts. The bible says:

1Co 12:28-30 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

So there are miracles, and healings, I probably fall into none of those categories full time, as I have only seen one or two healings. But different people in the church have different giftings. I know of some who have even raised the dead back to life. Nothing is impossible with God, but as it is a gift God has to allow it, you don't just get to be a miracle worker when you become a Christian.

[Whateverist]

.. different people in the church have different giftings. I know of some who have even raised the dead back to life. Nothing is impossible with God, but as it is a gift God has to allow it, you don't just get to be a miracle worker when you become a Christian.

What the hell are you on? You're a little too openly weird to be legit. You can't really believe this shit.

[Jackalope]

* Jackalope backs away from thread, looking for a stout stick or large rock.

[The Grand Nudger]

He has more success than me in prayer. Different christians have different gifts.

The dark gift is different for us all.....

I know of some who have even raised the dead back to life.

Hold the fucking presses, all medical science has just been made irrelevant, what is this fantastic son of a bitches name? He needs to be recognized. Cure for AIDs, na...fuck that, we'll just rise you from the dead, who cares.

[Minimalist]

I believe in God due to the experiences I have had with God. Miracles and the like.

You sound like a first class fucking asshole.