Atheism leaves too much room for error.

[Edwardo Piet]

Ok, going back to the OP:

Atheism leaves too much for error eh? Exactly the same amount of error it leaves you, The_Truth - as well myself and others of course - respective to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

EvF

Yes sir, I believe atheism is incorrect. I have shown how life and universe began with materials that are so small they can't be seen by the human eye. And God said in the Bible The Worlds were formed with things that cannot be seen. How can you disagree with that?

Because it's similar and not the same, and any similarites are obviously complete total and utter conicidences as that's infinitely more probable than God actually existing.

How can you claim that is an untrue statement by God?

Because I cannot accept his truth untill I accept his existence first.

(written nearly 3000 years ago).

That's not a good thing. I don't know why you make out that it is. Science knows a lot more than people did 3000 years ago.

I cannot believe atheists dismiss this statement by the bible.

Because it's not evidence of God.

"By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible." - Hebrews 11:3

It's statements like this that make me believe in the bible, and of course God.

And this is evidence of God...How?! If that's a reason to believe then....why is it?.

EvF

[The_Truth]

Because it's similar and not the same, and any similarites are obviously complete total and utter conicidences as that's infinitely more probable than God actually existing.

You call it coincidence. I call it the Word of God. And that word is true and accurate.

That's not a good thing. I don't know why you make out that it is. Science knows a lot more than people did 3000 years ago.

Yes.. I agree. Science did have tons of knowledge in the ancient days. But not like the bible. Light before the sun, the universe being created with invisible atoms, every snow flake is unique. Not to mention the over 300 prophecies fulfilled by God.

And this is evidence of God...How?! If that's a reason to believe then....why is it?.EvF

It's verses like this that prove the ancient hebrews were speaking to an intelligent force. It's really hard to imagine the hebrews having this kind of knowledge without being informed by a higher power. Scientists didn't discover this until the late 19th century. The Hebrews said so 3000 years ago.

[Minimalist]

Well we know it was stories and texts that were put together into one big book.

The question was about the language. Xtian crazies insist that there were Hebrew texts and we do not have a single example of such a text. What we have is in Greek.

Let's remember the historical context. The Persians restored Judah (as the Persian province of Yehud) c 530 BC. Persian control existed for two centuries until Alexander the Great overran the whole Persian empire. In the aftermath of his death, his generals divided up the empire and Ptolemy, in Alexandria, had control of Yehud in the early 3d century....exactly the time that the Septuagint was written. Now, Ptolemy the first was famous for looking for books for his new library in Alexandria. Tradition is that Jewish scholars translated the Torah into Greek for inclusion in the library. But there is no evidence to support the tradition in the form of pre-existing Hewbrew texts. Could these have been oral tales, told to Greek scholars who then wrote them down? Yes. Many religions...including the Persian's Zoroastrianism...did not have written texts at the time. Knowledge was transmitted orally from priests to initiates. But nothing slows down a xtian from believing in his fairy tales.

---

I have shown how life and universe began with materials that are so small they can't be seen by the human eye.

http://www.livemint.com/2009/08/18154337...t.html?h=B

New York: Astronomers claim to have found an amino acid on a comet for the first time, a discovery which confirms that some of life’s building blocks were delivered to the early earth from space.

Amino acids are crucial to life because they form the basis of proteins, the molecules that run cells. They form when organic, carbon-containing compounds and water are zapped with a source of energy, such as photons — a process that can take place on earth or in space.

Previously, amino acids have been found in space rocks that fell to earth as meteorites. Now, a team at Nasa Goddard Space Flight Center have analysed samples from the agency’s Stardust mission and traced the amino acid called glycine to an icy comet for the first time, the New Scientist reported.

Oops. Looks like we don't need any silly 'god' to account for this, either.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Yes sir, I believe atheism is incorrect.

How can it be incorrect ... it is simply a label, it carries no philosophy, has no value in and of itself, it just says what we are! The value, the philosophy comes from the underlying reasons that made us atheists.

I have shown how life and universe began with materials that are so small they can't be seen by the human eye. And God said in the Bible The Worlds were formed with things that cannot be seen. How can you disagree with that? How can you claim that is an untrue statement by God? (written nearly 3000 years ago). How did the Hebrews know the Universe and all life-form was created by cosmic elements that are so small, they are invisible?

Come again? You've shown what? Like hell you have! Biblical scripture can only be force fit to modern science just like I demonstrated to you with your pathetic claim that "let there be light" equated to the big bang.

I cannot believe atheists dismiss this statement by the bible.

"By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible." - Hebrews 11:3

It's in plain site. God said he formed the world's with things that are invisible. modern science confirmed it with their discovery of invisible atoms.
Because only a God would know the universe and everything in between was created by materials that are not visible to the human eye.

Easily ... it's bollocks! It's also worth noting that "worlds" is not "universe" or even "stars" and that there is no suggestion that the process of stellar or planetary creation were in any way not visible processes.

It's statements like this that make me believe in the bible, and of course God.

Rubbish ... you believe because you want to believe, you even force fit your bible scriptures to say what you want them to say!

How can you say the bible is not a liable source of information? I have provided a verse from ancient scripture that modern science has proven to be factual. Modern Archaeologists use the bible as a map to dig for oil. Amazing discoveries are being unearthed all the time. No book in human history is more accurate than the bible. It's been written in numerous different languages, and it's sold over 6.7 billion copies. Making it the most sold book in the history of the world.

It is not factual; it is grossly misrepresenting both your scripture and science to claim that such a simplistic statement can equate to science.

You call it coincidence. I call it the Word of God. And that word is true and accurate.

There is no mention of hydrogen, helium, lithium., beryllium, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen fluorine or neon in your bible (to list just the first two rows of the periodic table and the lighter elements most likely to be produced first in the very early universe so no the claimed word of your god is not even within spitting distance of merest suggestion of accuracy.

Yes.. I agree. Science did have tons of knowledge in the ancient days. But not like the bible. Light before the sun, the universe being created with invisible atoms, every snow flake is unique. Not to mention the over 300 prophecies fulfilled by God.

More bollocks! Which fucking prophecies have been fulfilled? And not *in bible* ones please because they don't count!

It's verses like this that prove the ancient hebrews were speaking to an intelligent force. It's really hard to imagine the hebrews having this kind of knowledge without being informed by a higher power. Scientists didn't discover this until the late 19th century. The Hebrews said so 3000 years ago.

The fact is they didn't have the kind of knowledge you claim, all the available evidence indicates they were a technologically illiterate people in comparison to today's understanding of the universe.

Kyu

[Tiberius]

Look, I'll sort this out for you. Here is the quotation:

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Note the first part of the sentence "the worlds were framed by the word of God". This is important for the rest of the sentence to be in context. It simply means that everything was made by something that does not appear (i.e. God, or God's "word").

The whole statement is a reference to the ethereal nature of God; that everything was made by him even though he does not manifest himself as physical.

Nowhere does the statement mention atoms or anything to do with atoms.

[Rhizomorph13]

...invisible atoms...

My Scanning Electron Microscope disagrees with you...

Rhizo

[Edwardo Piet]

The_Truth,

Any similarites to what we know now... if there are any whatsoever, however vague, are indeed total, complete, and utter coincidences - why? Because God is far more improbable than a few, however few - extremely vague conicidences that tell nothing. That's not remotely improbable. Easy conincidences - God on the other hand is extremely improbable - and it doesn't address him at all!

EvF

[The_Truth]

[quote='Rhizomorph13' pid='27123' dateline='1250710568']
[quote='The_Truth' pid='27102' dateline='1250705132']
...invisible atoms...[/quote]

My Scanning Electron Microscope disagrees with you...

Rhizo
[/quote] Not to sound rude, but did you honestly think this through before you posted that?

---

[quote='EvidenceVsFaith' pid='27142' dateline='1250718211']
The_Truth,

Any similarites to what we know now... if there are any whatsoever, however vague, are indeed total, complete, and utter coincidences - why? Because God is far more improbable than a few, however few - extremely vague conicidences that tell nothing. That's not remotely improbable. Easy conincidences - God on the other hand is extremely improbable - and it doesn't address him at all!

EvF
[/quote]I find it really hard to believe what was said in the bible and what modern scientists are saying is complete coincidence. Only a genius would have known that the universe was created by things that do not appear. God is possible and his creation proves it.

---

[quote='Kyuuketsuki' pid='27112' dateline='1250707243']How can it be incorrect ... it is simply a label, it carries no philosophy, has no value in and of itself, it just says what we are! The value, the philosophy comes from the underlying reasons that made us atheists.[/quote] Yes, you are correct, I guess. but you cannot know for sure if God exists or not. Not even the world's top scientists can make that claim. So, when I say atheism leaves too much room for error. You must ask yourself, could God possibly exist?

[quote]Come again? You've shown what? Like hell you have! Biblical scripture can only be force fit to modern science just like I demonstrated to you with your pathetic claim that "let there be light" equated to the big bang.[/quote]How in the world can Biblical scripture fit into modern science, when the bible made the claim long before we discovered atoms. If anything, modern science is agreeing with scripture.

[quote='The_Truth' pid='27086' dateline='1250697617']I cannot believe atheists dismiss this statement by the bible.

[quote]Easily ... it's bollocks! It's also worth noting that "worlds" is not "universe" or even "stars" and that there is no suggestion that the process of stellar or planetary creation were in any way not visible processes.[/quote] Yes, when the Hebrews used the word "worlds", they were talking about the planets. God created the worlds with things that do not appear.

[quote]Rubbish ... you believe because you want to believe, you even force fit your bible scriptures to say what you want them to say![/quote]Not true. I'm reading ancient texts, and I am also reading modern science. They both claim the universe was created by materials that cannot be seen. How is that forcing anything?

[quote]It is not factual; it is grossly misrepresenting both your scripture and science to claim that such a simplistic statement can equate to science.[/quote]God claimed he created everything with things that do not appear long before modern science come up with this discovery.

[quote]There is no mention of hydrogen, helium, lithium., beryllium, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen fluorine or neon in your bible (to list just the first two rows of the periodic table and the lighter elements most likely to be produced first in the very early universe so no the claimed word of your god is not even within spitting distance of merest suggestion of accuracy.[/quote]Why would God get into strict details with his people? If you suggested hydogren, helium, carbon or nitrogen, they wouldn't have understood him. Those words didn't exist in ancient hebrew.

[quote]More bollocks! Which fucking prophecies have been fulfilled? And not *in bible* ones please because they don't count![/quote] The ancient city of Tyre shall never be rebuilt. Where is Tyre these days? Its underground, and a new city called "Sur" replaced it. God promised Tyre shall never exist ever again. Sure, the land exists, but it's not called Tyre anymore. Tyre is long gone underground. modern archaealogists prove this.

[quote]The fact is they didn't have the kind of knowledge you claim, all the available evidence indicates they were a technologically illiterate people in comparison to today's understanding of the universe.

Kyu
[/quote] You're correct. I never claimed the ancient hebrews were geniuses. But they did receive information from an intelligent being. Scientists and skeptics made a mockery of the bible when they read "the universe was prepared by invisible things". Skeptics believed that was utterly impossible. hmm?

[Edwardo Piet]

The_Truth, people didn't know what science has worked out today. Vague guesses that are at most vaguely similar is not the same as the work science offers.

EvF

[Kyuuketsuki]

How can it be incorrect ... it is simply a label, it carries no philosophy, has no value in and of itself, it just says what we are! The value, the philosophy comes from the underlying reasons that made us atheists.

Yes, you are correct, I guess. but you cannot know for sure if God exists or not. Not even the world's top scientists can make that claim. So, when I say atheism leaves too much room for error. You must ask yourself, could God possibly exist?

And no one that I know of is saying there absolutely is no god, what we are saying is there is no validatable evidence for a god (no more evidence than for the thousands of others gods invented, apparently, by mankind or indeed fro the facetious ones invented to ridicule the idea) and as such we will live our lives as if there is none because (in our view) it is stupid to do otherwise. IN essence YOU have to prove the existence of your god BEFORE we will accept it to be so.

Come again? You've shown what? Like hell you have! Biblical scripture can only be force fit to modern science just like I demonstrated to you with your pathetic claim that "let there be light" equated to the big bang.

How in the world can Biblical scripture fit into modern science, when the bible made the claim long before we discovered atoms. If anything, modern science is agreeing with scripture.

Rubbish ... you have a book written by a technological primitive people, it is not and never will be a science book. I'll consider accepting that your bible got it right WHEN (and only when) you demonstrate that your bible describes evolution, DNA, the periodic table, cosmology, rocket science, plate tectonics, gravity, geology, oceanography, quantum mechanics and more besides ... and before you go, "ah but... " let me make it plain ... I mean IN DETAIL (all of known science probably equates to several hundred extremely large libraries, your bible is ONE book).

Easily ... it's bollocks! It's also worth noting that "worlds" is not "universe" or even "stars" and that there is no suggestion that the process of stellar or planetary creation were in any way not visible processes.

Yes, when the Hebrews used the word "worlds", they were talking about the planets. God created the worlds with things that do not appear.

And you are INTERPRETING ... what the hell makes YOUR interpretation of your bible right and not mine? You interpret it as everything, I interpret it as an historic source and nothing more. You CANNOT prove you are right!

Rubbish ... you believe because you want to believe, you even force fit your bible scriptures to say what you want them to say!

Not true. I'm reading ancient texts, and I am also reading modern science. They both claim the universe was created by materials that cannot be seen. How is that forcing anything?

The bible is not now and never will be science ... grow up!

It is not factual; it is grossly misrepresenting both your scripture and science to claim that such a simplistic statement can equate to science.

God claimed he created everything with things that do not appear long before modern science come up with this discovery.

So fucking what? I claim I invented the nuclear bomb ... my claim is stronger than your god's ... at least I can be proven to exist!

There is no mention of hydrogen, helium, lithium., beryllium, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen fluorine or neon in your bible (to list just the first two rows of the periodic table and the lighter elements most likely to be produced first in the very early universe so no the claimed word of your god is not even within spitting distance of merest suggestion of accuracy.

Why would God get into strict details with his people? If you suggested hydogren, helium, carbon or nitrogen, they wouldn't have understood him. Those words didn't exist in ancient hebrew.

Then your bible is NOT science ... don't you get it yet? Learn some science!

More bollocks! Which fucking prophecies have been fulfilled? And not *in bible* ones please because they don't count!

The ancient city of Tyre shall never be rebuilt. Where is Tyre these days? Its underground, and a new city called "Sur" replaced it. God promised Tyre shall never exist ever again. Sure, the land exists, but it's not called Tyre anymore. Tyre is long gone underground. modern archaealogists prove this.

If your god said Tyre would never be rebuilt why does it exist now?

The fact is they didn't have the kind of knowledge you claim, all the available evidence indicates they were a technologically illiterate people in comparison to today's understanding of the universe.

You're correct. I never claimed the ancient hebrews were geniuses. But they did receive information from an intelligent being. Scientists and skeptics made a mockery of the bible when they read "the universe was prepared by invisible things". Skeptics believed that was utterly impossible. hmm?

An ancient being for which there is no fucking validatable evidence ... as far as any objective observer can tell, your god is fiction!

Kyu