atheist vs agnostics.

[Cyberman]

So very true!

[Zone]

They're the same thing with a different degree of passion. Atheists tend to deeply dislike religions and the concept of God and think it's utterly ridiculous, a form of child abuse and so on. Agnostics are a bit more chilled, people can believe in "some stuff" if they like, as long as they're not harming anyone.

[Something completely different]

I think alot of people today who say "Oh I am an agnostic" are twats. Especialy when they then say "well because agnostics only believe in what is scientificaly known and atheists cannot scientificaly prove that god doesnt exist".

Well I cant and to a certain point I am an agnostic, being that I follow that way way of thinking. But I am an atheist because I reject the god through what I know about "them", not a single deity out there is in any kind of way moraly compatible with todays human made values represented in a republic.
Even worse, if some of the deities described in the religious texts of some would actualy exist, they would deserve to be hunted down and be put on trail rather than be followed.

[Zone]

Agnostics tend to believe there is a decent chance that something like a God or higher power could exist, religions do make some decent arguments and there is some good imagination there at the very least. But going from that to believing in miracles or the Devil would be a stretch for me personally.

[Cyberman]

More accurately, I think, agnostic atheists don't rule out the possibility of god/s existing; they simply don't find the arguments convincing. Certainly I've never come across one that wasn't superficially compelling at first blush, but which on deeper reflection was just smoke and mirrors.

[Zone]

I'm not convinced by any religions specific God or sacred texts but at the same time I'm not really convinced that the universe/life is "just here" by some fluke of coincidence either. There probably is "something going on" even if I'm not quite sure what. It will be well beyond anything we know or think we know. So that's my agnostic stance.

[Cyberman]

Sounds more deistic than agnostic to me. I don't think the Universe etc is a result of fluke or coincidence either, but I don't imagine a god face painted on whatever such origin might turn out to be. What we do know about physical laws, which are what would have dominated this ultimate origin, particularly on at least the quantum level, is that they work all by themselves according to reliable and consistent principles which can be understood. To me, and in the interests of humility and human fallibility I concede I could be wrong, there's no need for a god or similar entity to enter into the picture; and most certainly not ol' maniacal Yahweh.

[Zone]

If there is some kind of higher power then I think it would be constantly involved in the universe in some way though not in the virgin birth and resurrection from the dead sense. It's not that it's "needed" but I wouldn't go as far as to say that the universe and the formation of intelligent life within in it was a coincidence, I'm not convinced that's actually true. The universe is a damn complicated thing and there would appear to be an elaborate process of formation of complex structure. I would also doubt that we die and "cease to exist" seeing as the fact that we already exist with that would prevent that. Existence is from your own conscious perspective within space and time so once you're here you're here, you can't really go anywhere else.

[Cyberman]

Again, I don't think there's any coincidence involved either. Whatever the ultimate answer, if there is one, it's not a matter of either a higher power or coincidence. Yes, the Universe is indeed a complicated place, but operating as we've evolved to do on the human scale we tend to overlook or at least underestimate the power yof physics on a Universal level. If some higher power was constantly involved in the Universe in any way, it and/or its effects would by definition be detectable. As AronRa once put it, "Anytime a supernatural entity reaches into the prime material plane, it should pull its arm out dripping with physics. It should leave evidence. But it doesn't."

[Zone]

if there is one, it's not a matter of either a higher power or coincidence.

Either there is some kind of deliberate reason, purpose or direction to the universe, and this requires a higher power of some kind or there is no such thing. If there isn't such a thing then it's entirely fluke chance that everything is here at all and we're here to experience it. I think it's somewhat unlikely to be a chance myself even if no religion has managed to sell me their wares. I really don't think they know anything more than I do.

Yes, the Universe is indeed a complicated place, but operating as we've evolved to do on the human scale we tend to overlook or at least underestimate the power yof physics on a Universal level.

I think the purpose of the universe if it has one is to form civilisations of organic beings, everything being set up toward that end in a sequence from the Big Bang onwards. What we understand about the universe, cosmology, organic evolution and so on are ours observations of the sequence taking place. Though is unlikely to have anything to do with the Bible or the Quran, all that stuff ultimately comes from us as far as I'm concerned. I'm agnostic in the sense that I have no idea what is ultimately initating the process or why but that's my opinion on the subject.

If some higher power was constantly involved in the Universe in any way, it and/or its effects would by definition be detectable.

Only if it's the traditional God of religion that can intervene against the natural order we understand with miracles and such. But there isn't anything like that as far as I can tell, certainly no evidence for that so no good reason to believe in it. And it won't be something outside the universe that dips in and leaves a tell tale trace of itself either it would all be one complete natural system, with a purpose or goal of some kind.

As AronRa once put it, "Anytime a supernatural entity reaches into the prime material plane, it should pull its arm out dripping with physics. It should leave evidence. But it doesn't."

That's the kind of thing I woukld reject as well. Though I would also reject what AronRas brand of atheism. So agnosticism it has to be for me, seems to be what I'm stuck with.