Why pray?

[Neo-Scholastic]

... if you have to work for it, then how could you distinguish between an answered prayer and purely your own efforts?

Simple. Without God you cannot do anything at all. All power comes from the Lord. (John 15:5) It only appears to come from ourselves. Prayer acknowledges that arrangement.

[Darkstar]

Without God you cannot do anything at all. All power comes from the Lord. (John 15:5) It only appears to come from ourselves. Prayer acknowledges that arrangement.

I'm not going to just accept that offhand, but if I did I'm sure I could come up with some unwanted implications of it (only one I can think of right now would be that god more actively permits atrocities to happen). Too tired to provide more reasons at the moment...

[Soyouz]

Why pray? What is prayer good for? Isn't it just wishful thinking? Do you think it makes a difference?

Hi Justin,

From the Catholic (universal) Christian perspective, prayer is primarily a conversation, a form of communication, with God or even the Saints. Prayer can be vocal or mental.

(Saints are the people who are with God - i.e. who are "in Heaven".)

Catholic Christians talk to God for various reasons:

- to adore / glorify God

We love God, our Father: He appreciates hearing that, just like any biological parent does. This doesn't represent vanity or being "needy", (for God or biological parents), but just the simple beauty, happiness and contentedness which comes through knowing that someone you love also loves you back. To be givers and receivers of love is why we exist.

- to give thanks to Him

For our very lives, for our talents and gifts, for our amazing universe and beautiful planet, for those whom we love, for our favourite music, for all the good things in our lives, for our everyday experiences, for all the little things that make us smile, for all we have seen and done, for all we have learnt etc etc

God is the source of all of this, and we are thankful for it.

- to express contrition

Ie for whenever we f*ck things up somehow, which we all (not just Catholics!) do and very frequently. We Catholics call these occasions "Sins".

Sins offend God and injure or even rupture (end) our relationship with Him. Practising Catholics must repair this situation via contrition in prayer, hence they pray.

- to ask for His benefits

Essentially to petition God for things, Eg: To ask God for His grace: for courage, strength, humility, or patience for oneself, or for the wellbeing and care of loved ones, including those whose mortal lives have ended.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen, an American, said we pray “because we are orchestras and we always need a tune-up.” He taught the importance of prayer in recharging our spiritual batteries.

As for my own experience of prayer, I would say that, done properly (which isn't always, at times people can be guilty of rushed, or absent minded prayer, or can be distracted etc) I find it a very fulfilling experience, which leaves me feeling very serene, refreshed and content.

Well, to me the problem here is that God is supposedly all knowing.
This means God is going to know exactly how everyone is going to turn out in the future because he has created the recipe for everything.
God has therefore created beings which he knows will pray for him, he knows who will suffer and who will not, he has created certain personalities some are more prone to committing sins and some are not.

God will know at the time of creation who will commit bad acts, the IQ of every single individual, the neurons and their pathways in every individuals brain because he is the creator of a type of recipe.

In the same way I bake a cake, put it in the oven and expect a cake and not a pizza to come out.

You're also assuming God likes to receive prayers, now I wonder why is that?
Does God have a brain which releases endorphins? Does he have feelings? Why are you making him human-like?
Assuming god exists I do not think he loves anyone considering all the harsh punishments he has handed out to people who have done nothing wrong what so ever.

if you enjoy praying, be my guest but all these assumptions you make are just extremely unlikely.

[pocaracas]

All those things you ask when praying can be categorized as psychological properties.
That means that you can influence yourself when you " find it a very fulfilling experience, which leaves me feeling very serene, refreshed and content."

It's a valid way to achieve that goal, but, as far as I see it, it's a self-delusional way to achieve it.
It would be no different if there was actually no god, but you only believe there was.

[Raven]

Soyouz wrote:Well, to me the problem here is that God is supposedly all knowing.
This means God is going to know exactly how everyone is going to turn out in the future because he has created the recipe for everything.
God has therefore created beings which he knows will pray for him, he knows who will suffer and who will not, he has created certain personalities some are more prone to committing sins and some are not.

God will know at the time of creation who will commit bad acts, the IQ of every single individual, the neurons and their pathways in every individuals brain because he is the creator of a type of recipe.

In the same way I bake a cake, put it in the oven and expect a cake and not a pizza to come out.

You're also assuming God likes to receive prayers, now I wonder why is that?
Does God have a brain which releases endorphins? Does he have feelings? Why are you making him human-like?
Assuming god exists I do not think he loves anyone considering all the harsh punishments he has handed out to people who have done nothing wrong what so ever.

if you enjoy praying, be my guest but all these assumptions you make are just extremely unlikely.

Could not agree more. I was taught all the usual Catholic programming from the very beginning. They have it down to a science, they've certainly been at it for a long enough time. Get them while they are young. Conditioning is what it is, hence Hitchen's 'Cosmic North Korea'. To a very large extent you do not stand a chance, due to the fact all your internal circuitry is wired as per their orthodoxy. Consequently you do not see the sheer fallacy of the entire enterprise. Most of 'em will never be re-wired, sad to say.

[justin]

Seems like god to most theist response is a god that is just a lil lonely and needs some uplifting lol
also he isn't going to actually move mountain but hey never hurt to send him a prayer and at least chat for a second.

[Zen Badger]

... if you have to work for it, then how could you distinguish between an answered prayer and purely your own efforts?

Simple. Without God you cannot do anything at all. All power comes from the Lord. (John 15:5) It only appears to come from ourselves. Prayer acknowledges that arrangement.

Any evidence to back up that claim Chad?

[Minimalist]

Without God you cannot do anything at all.

Fuck the both of you. I don't need your god and don't seem to have any problem!

Classic example of religious snobbery there, Chad.

[iameatingjam]

I'm sure that some believe it works. I think that they're in the minority.

I think that a lot of people work very hard to try and convince themselves that it works. You probably know at least a few of them, who credit prayer when things go well and offer up bizarre (and sometimes truly obscene) rationalizations when they don't. "Oh, the chemo didn't work and you've only got a month to live? It must be a blessing in disguise! I'm sooo jealous right now!"

This is what I believe. I mean humans are very intelligent creatures, I imagine most people who prayer have serious internal doubts about whether it actually works or not. We want to feel in control, we want to feel like there's always something we can do, even if we logically know it doesn't make sense.

HELL, I've even prayed a few times since I've been atheist. I mean when I was in really sticky situations, or when I feared for my life. I knew it wasn't going to help, but I tried anyway.

[Minimalist]

or when I feared for my life.

Running makes far more sense in such a situation than praying.