Nothingness

[Whateverist]

For me, Atheism is the 'positive rejection of god' actually. Not a lack of belief.

There, fixed that for you. For me, atheism is just a lack of belief in this 'god' thing the theist are all excited about. For you, atheism means you understand perfectly well what this god thing is and you have evidence for its non-existence. Go for it buddy. Show us what you got.

But you don't speak for me. I'm a defacto atheist as a result of my bewilderment as to what a god could possibly be. It is not a well defined concept so I have no idea whether or not this fuzzily defined thing exists. But I don't really care either, certainly not enough to sacrifice my own clarity by claiming to know gods don't exist when I have no frigging idea what counts as a god. Certainly plenty exist as mythical figures.

[Gnosis]

For me, Atheism is the 'positive rejection of god' actually. Not a lack of belief.

There, fixed that for you. For me, atheism is just a lack of belief in this 'god' thing the theist are all excited about. For you, atheism means you understand perfectly well what this god thing is and you have evidence for its non-existence. Go for it buddy. Show us what you got.

But you don't speak for me. I'm a defacto atheist as a result of my bewilderment as to what a god could possibly be. It is not a well defined concept so I have no idea whether or not this fuzzily defined thing exists. But I don't really care either, certainly not enough to sacrifice my own clarity by claiming to know gods don't exist when I have no frigging idea what counts as a god. Certainly plenty exist as mythical figures.

I never said i had evidence he doesn't exist i said the lack of evidence leads me to believe he doesn't exist ? And i definitely did not say i know what 'god' is. But i don't believe that the universe was intelligently designed. But again, these are only my views.
And no of course not I speak only for myself.

[Violet]

Thanks for the tip, Im new to forums.

That one was free. The next one won't be.

You have no argument, I won't restate my point to you because anyone who chooses not to believe in logic is moronic.

Evidently, you need to work on your English... after all, I have many arguments.

Instead of branding those who do not believe what you believe 'morons'... you could ask them 'why don't you believe what I believe?', and possibly have an illustrative moment for your own introspection off of that.

But no, learning is moronic

So your not going to listen to anything I say no matter how well I make my point.

I've listened to everything you've said thus far, and I would hear it however you would say it. Maybe you should stop making assumptions... but then, you'd have to stop knowing

You clearly don't understand the three laws or anything eles at that matter if you a capable of thinking that society could adapt to a world without logic.

Clearly, it's because I don't understand anything from the three laws of logic (or anything else, for that matter!) that I'm able to think that society could adapt to a world sans logic.

Clearly.

Clearly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jif8cM0Rt0

It's not as though I might have based my criticisms of logic off of a very intimate understanding of the subject, or anything. Nope. Clearly someone capable of thinking something must just not understand anything.

And calling me a twit and criticizing the format and what not of my argument more than actually debating it and making VALID points tells me you have not a clue.

Is context a difficult thing for you? Oh wait, I can't think, clearly.

Anyhow, you're certainly demonstrating twittish behavior right now, and your formatting initially made your post almost completely unreadable. I had to click the reply box to see what you had said in the first place, because it was invisible.

You'll notice, however, that I then went back and criticized your argument? Oh... you didn't notice that. Clearly, since it was at issue with what you were saying, it is suddenly an invalid point what demonstrates that I haven't a clue. Clearly.

You are away with the fairies, aren't you.? With the magic dust and such.

I ma aslo aawy wtih teh grmamar, sytnax, adn speeling Nzais, claerly.

And if you know where I might find some magic dust, do tell. I've been an avid user of evil banana guts for some years, but I haven't yet taken the plunge with dust. Pray tell me: why should I such pathetic magicks?

---

Two things;

1. A world run by logic isn't a moral place.
2. That Dawkins quote in your sig doesn't make any sense.

1. Why mustn't it be?
2. Dawkins rarely does.

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1. Right ok... and yet without it the world would fall to chaos, logic doesn't rule the world it gives us guidelines and insight, We are born with a logical mind and morals. Religion fucks that up. Look at the bible !

Boy howdy! I didn't know that.

I guess we've all identical morals and make the same decisions, then. Thank you for telling me this! And here I thought they were all individuals... no matter, now I don't have to feel bad about feasting upon human flesh

The God of the Bible allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). Is that moral ?

Ah... yes.

What morals have to do with logic... well: you'll have to tell me.

2. Ow it doesn't ? Do elaborate on how it doesn't ?
Do you believe in Zeus ?

Ow ? He hurt you ? That MEAN MEAN Idealogue!

I should hope that he, you, and me all believe in Zeus. Don't you ?

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Well they would be ! How can someone say they reject the three most basic laws of logic. They are there they are laws they have proven themselves over and over again without them we would all be fucked. I am by no means saying that you must base and live your life around logic nor am i saying any religious person is moronic. But logic is logic ! to say you don't 'Believe' in logic is moronic.
Thats like saying i don't believe in maths. How can you not agree with that stubbornness aside like seriously.

How could ANYONE ever reject my belief system? It's logical! It makes sense! It... it... oh... I just can't believe it!

That would, I believe, be an argument of incredulity. If you'd like to learn something, mayhap you'll stop making them?

Logic is logic, yes... logically. To say I don't believe in logic... I find rather well-measured. It is saying that I don't 'believe in' mathematics... the latter being based firmly upon the former, after all.

Thing is... I'm willing to reconsider notions today provided to me by logic (and her child, mathematics), if ever the day comes when such things prove to no longer apply. And in some states, take for example... nothingness: such things do not necessarily apply. Indeed: why would they?

Not taking me seriously for suggesting that logic may be suspect, is similar in many ways to a Christian not taking you seriously for suggesting that God may be suspect. Infact, I cannot find a difference between your positive assertions of belief.

Can you?

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I believe in Zeus! I think logic is shit. If you ask me to justify why Zeus is real, I will attempt to structure a logical argument, however, I will abandon that logic when its inconvenient to my claims, but...I am ok with using logic to illustrate why I don't believe in the tooth fairy because that is a different kind of claim and I don't want it to be true, in short, the applicability of logic is contingent upon claims and my prejudices towards them....lol, it's like taking a stroll through a sanitarium and searching for enlightenment! These people sound nuts! I don't think the lollipop guild is gonna offer any sound reason for adopting this unique train of thought that makes something true if you really want it to be!!!

Logic is a tool by which we justify things, if we deign use it. In the end... it is all justification, and all of knowledge likely false.

---

I never said i had evidence he doesn't exist i said the lack of evidence leads me to believe he doesn't exist ? And i definitely did not say i know what 'god' is. But i don't believe that the universe was intelligently designed. But again, these are only my views.
And no of course not I speak only for myself.

But in the end, you have a belief. Recognizing that would probably do some good for you. Or it might have you butchered by a living banana... but then you'd have to seriously fuck up. Dye your hair blue and die.

[little_monkey]

What happened to Harry?

[Whateverist]

I never said i had evidence he doesn't exist i said the lack of evidence leads me to believe he doesn't exist

Fair enough. For the record, I don't think that (s)he/it does exist either, whatever that may turn out to be. It's just that I also don't think (s)he/it doesn't exist either. There isn't any point in taking a stand regarding the existence of something no two people seem to define in the same way. Bottom line - who cares?

[Gnosis]

I never said i had evidence he doesn't exist i said the lack of evidence leads me to believe he doesn't exist

Fair enough. For the record, I don't think that (s)he/it does exist either, whatever that may turn out to be. It's just that I also don't think (s)he/it doesn't exist either. There isn't any point in taking a stand regarding the existence of something no two people seem to define in the same way. Bottom line - who cares?

I agree with you chief.

[Violet]

* Violet wonders how many times she will have to say it...

Everything exists.

[Cyberman]

1. That's not true, our morality is not based on logic, at least I hope yours isn't. Morality is most of the time illogical. And I really couldn't give a shit about the Bible. Logically, yes, selling your daughter as a sex slave earns the parents some financial reward doesn't it. In fact, a daughter can be a financial liability, so it makes sense to sell her as a sex slave. Welcome to using logic as the basis for morality my friend, welcome.

Logic has very little, if anything, to do with how animals ought to behave towards each other. Well spotted. To expect otherwise would be rather silly.

2. Atheism is the lack of a belief. I don't just lack a belief in Zeus, I reject it with a positive rejection i.e. there's no way Zeus exists. That's not the same as atheism.

Please note the words in bold, then analyse them using the preceding sentence. Notice anything?

[little_monkey]

Everything exists.

You've made a lot kids, and adults too, very happy. Now they can live in the comfort that every cartoon character that ever appeared on this planet has been granted by you the blessed approval of their existence.

[Violet]

You've made a lot kids, and adults too, very happy. Now they can live in the comfort that every cartoon character that ever appeared on this planet has been granted by you the blessed approval of their existence.

Me? Oh... I haven't done anything.

I'm just telling you how things are Why, do you contest that everything exists? This I've got to hear