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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 7:39 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2013 at 7:43 pm by fr0d0.)
@ pineapple
You didn't give your dog another toy. The toy came from another person (/god).
Regardless... the toy represents a gift of love. It's the dogs choice to accept it or not. If he rebels and refuses your toy, he chooses to rebel against good. (sorry I see how I mixed that up a bit)
Rebellion against good is bad. There is only good. There are not several (fully) goods. You can't bypass the choice to be good with an alternative good, or your original good can't have been good at all. (talking about ultimate goods, as God supposedly is)
I'm sure that you think that there's reason to be good. If we took out the dogma and talked about this minus all of the religious baggage, I wonder if we'd have much disagreement.
Personally I think anyone is evil for not choosing vanilla 
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 7:44 pm
(June 21, 2013 at 7:39 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: @ pineapple
You didn't give your dog another toy. The toy came from another person (/god).
Regardless... the toy represents a gift of love. It's the dogs choice to accept it or not. If he rebels and refuses your toy, he chooses to rebel against good. (sorry I see how I mixed that up a bit)
Rebellion against good is bad. There is only good. There are not several (fully) goods. You can't bypass the choice to be good with an alternative good, or your original good can't have been good at all. (talking about ultimate goods, as God supposedly is)
I'm sure that you think that there's reason to be good. If we took out the dogma and talked about this minus all of the religious baggage, I wonder if we'd have much disagreement.
Personally I think anyone is evil for not choosing vanilla
How are any of your posts a response to the question:
If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Threads digress orange man. it's called conversation. If we divert too much a kind staff member will be along to clean up the mess. Like little minions serving our every need. Cute lil fellas.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 8:34 pm
(June 21, 2013 at 7:39 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: @ pineapple
If he rebels and refuses your toy, he chooses to rebel against good. No, the toy isn't good. It's purpose is to make my dog happy, that's why I bought it, if he doesn't like it, the toy failed to serve its purpose. There isn't good and bad involved here. Just a transaction.
(June 21, 2013 at 7:39 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Rebellion against good is bad. There is only good. There are not several (fully) goods. You can't bypass the choice to be good with an alternative good, or your original good can't have been good at all. (talking about ultimate goods, as God supposedly is)
I'm sure that you think that there's reason to be good. If we took out the dogma and talked about this minus all of the religious baggage, I wonder if we'd have much disagreement.
Personally I think anyone is evil for not choosing vanilla
You're making a lot of assertions here. Rebellion isn't always completely bad or completely good. There are multiple "goods", if my friend is doing an all nighter for an exam, I can bring her food (one good) or stay up with her to make sure she doesn't fall asleep (another good). There're even gradations of good, I can do both (better than either one alone). What is an example of this "ultimate good"?
And I think we'd disagree quite a lot on how to treat my dog.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 21, 2013 at 8:51 pm
(June 21, 2013 at 7:48 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Threads digress orange man. it's called conversation. If we divert too much a kind staff member will be along to clean up the mess. Like little minions serving our every need. Cute lil fellas.
So what you are saying is that it isn't remotely related to the OP. Got it.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens
"I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations".
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
"In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! "
- Dr. Donald Prothero
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 22, 2013 at 2:26 am
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2013 at 2:36 am by fr0d0.)
it doesn't have to be orange man.
@ pineapple:
In my story the toy is love and the dog chooses to accept it or not. If you're not going to play by the rules I want my toys back (quote my daughter )
Likewise with the amount of "goods". I think we have to address only one reality of good and evil. That's what I want to address. Adding multiple goods muddys the issue. Again... go along with my story or your not playing! :p (the analogy is flawed of course. We have to make exceptions! :p ... you made me stick my tongue out twice!! - I just hope my daughter doesn't get to see this!))
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 22, 2013 at 9:56 am
(June 22, 2013 at 2:26 am)fr0d0 Wrote: it doesn't have to be orange man.
@ pineapple:
In my story the toy is love and the dog chooses to accept it or not. If you're not going to play by the rules I want my toys back (quote my daughter )
Likewise with the amount of "goods". I think we have to address only one reality of good and evil. That's what I want to address. Adding multiple goods muddys the issue. Again... go along with my story or your not playing! :p (the analogy is flawed of course. We have to make exceptions! :p ... you made me stick my tongue out twice!! - I just hope my daughter doesn't get to see this!)) No ... you're free to reject reality all you like, but you have to do much more than "you're not playing by my rules" to convince me to accept your imaginary universe.
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 22, 2013 at 5:58 pm
methinks you seriously misunderstand pineapple.
I don't reject reality at all. I fully embrace it. I hope that you do too. All I was saying was that you were misunderstanding the plot. If you don't want to play then that's fine
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 22, 2013 at 10:51 pm
(June 20, 2013 at 5:21 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Maybe you missed it, Fr0d0, but I was talking about what your god does to us. Care to explain why you don't correlate the similarities of how god treats us and how even I wouldn't treat my dog in the same manner?
![[Image: raptorjesusphotou3.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img406.imageshack.us%2Fimg406%2F466%2Fraptorjesusphotou3.jpg)
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RE: If you believe in the God of the Bible, why try to prove it logically?
June 22, 2013 at 11:57 pm
(This post was last modified: June 23, 2013 at 12:01 am by Mystical.)
He still hasn't explained why its justice to make a dog with teeth and a will to bite, then make an indefensible little girl and make the environment in which they live (which in itself has a dog eat dog chain of existence), then make a hell and punish the dog for biting: not only with earthly death but infinite/finite torment in hell. Nor has he established how its free will to choose god or hell. Pineapplebunny is right, that's not free will. Now if you said god gave the dog an infinity of non suffering existence to choose to come to him, maybe I'd swallow your scenario of a just god. As reality is and as your doctrine demonstrates, that's not the case. Your attempt at logically demonstrating that your god is good has failed. Try again please.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
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