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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm
(October 22, 2013 at 8:13 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: None of it holds up to actual scrutiny.
If you don't want to believe it then it won't enough convince you but it is enough to make it reasonable to believe in it providing you're not assuming materialism. If you are assuming materialism then you would instantly have to reject it out of hand as a tall tale as there is nothing else it could be. So the argument first is to explain why materialism isn't necessarily going yo be particularly true as you assume and then explain why you would want to believe this particular event happened. So a two pronged approach there. You can't go from your current frame of mind/world view and straight to the gospels as you're just going to take one look at it say "bollocks!" and sling it over your shoulder.
Quote:
Faith is not the path to truth.
Atheism doesn't even have a path, there would be literally nowhere to go. Either there is a "truth" or purpose to existence or there isn't.
Quote: And you just pointed out the flaw with using faith, every religion has faith in mutually exclusive claims.
They make similar claims as well it's not like one religion has to be 100% true and all the others 100% false.
Quote: And there is no way to discern the difference between the ones you believe are true and the ones Muslims, Zoroasrians, Hindus, etc believe are true.
Each religion would have it's own specific arguments/apologetic to support it. Christianity is distinguished by being the only religion that offers 100% guaranteed salvation from God himself through grace. Everything else is based on good works and/or karma so you essentially have to save yourself from God.
Quote:There is zero reason to invoke a god in order to explain morality. Natural and cultural explanations work fine.
Only if you want to deny freewill and reduce us all to machines though I wouldn't. You can if you like, it doesn't mean you know though it's just what you want to believe for some reason. I wouldn't recommend convincing everyone in the world that they are machines without purpose/freedom and there is no morality/justice beyond that which man himself can provide however, it's been tried before.
Quote:You still haven't answered whether you'd kill someone if God ordered you to.
When did Jesus go around telling anyone to kill anyone? Whatever God you have in mind I don't believe in that one I believe in Christ.
Quote:If you received a command that you knew came from God to kill someone, that as far as you could tell, is a good person, would you do it?
If it's something evil/vile then it wouldn't be a true vision of Jesus or whatever I was having if that answers the question?
Quote:If your faith is as strong as you claim, you should have no more problems carrying this command than you would if you received a command to help the needy.
I'd know the real God/Christ from a demon/Satan in disguise or a psychotic episode I was having.
Quote:Why are you avoiding the question? It seems simple enough.
Because I don't believe in whatever you have in mind for a God and if a God like that did exist I would have no interest in it.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 1:25 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 12:59 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: Quote:You still haven't answered whether you'd kill someone if God ordered you to.
When did Jesus go around telling anyone to kill anyone? Whatever God you have in mind I don't believe in that one I believe in Christ.
Quote:If you received a command that you knew came from God to kill someone, that as far as you could tell, is a good person, would you do it?
If it's something evil/vile then it wouldn't be a true vision of Jesus or whatever I was having if that answers the question?
For god sake! Your god told Abraham to kill his son, this is exactly the kind of thing we are talking about.
Stop dodging and answer the bloody question
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 5:26 pm
The only asshats who would agree with the OP's wording would be atheists, so shut the fuck up about that loaded question.
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 5:54 pm
I haven't actually seen you honestly answer either question yet.
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 6:46 pm
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2013 at 6:46 pm by Simon Moon.)
(October 23, 2013 at 5:26 pm)catfish Wrote: The only asshats who would agree with the OP's wording would be atheists, so shut the fuck up about that loaded question.
Yeah, you're the pinnacle of intellectual honesty....
[end sarcasm]
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 7:27 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 5:54 pm)TheBeardedDude Wrote: I haven't actually seen you honestly answer either question yet.
"for all intents and purposes let's assume we both agree that it is in fact god itself/himself/herself who did indeed tell you to do so"
I'll never agree with that. 
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Nice dodge, catty! But of course we can't expect you to take part in hypothetical thinking that could possibly display a bit of honesty from you, can we?
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 7:38 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 7:31 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Nice dodge, catty! But of course we can't expect you to take part in hypothetical thinking that could possibly display a bit of honesty from you, can we?
Right, so instead you'd propose that I lie and say I agree with that. 
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RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 7:41 pm
The great thing about hypothetical situations is that you don't have to agree with them.
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Re: RE: Theists, some questions
October 23, 2013 at 7:48 pm
(October 23, 2013 at 7:27 pm)catfish Wrote: (October 23, 2013 at 5:54 pm)TheBeardedDude Wrote: I haven't actually seen you honestly answer either question yet.
"for all intents and purposes let's assume we both agree that it is in fact god itself/himself/herself who did indeed tell you to do so"
I'll never agree with that. :-/
Then you don't know if God tells you anything and can never know it for certain or with enough certainty to believe it's god?
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