Jacob Wrestles With God

[themonkeyman]

Hey Folks,

I have a question for the other Illusionist on this Forum.

Why did God need to send his son when in Genesis 32:22-32

So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.

And

Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

So my question is why the Fuck did we need Jesus when God himself is shown throughout the OT to actually be Physically Present to his believers.

E.g. Sodom and Gomorrah story Abraham fed God and his two Angels?! Again why do we need Jesus? Why was God Almighty incarnate not sufficient to die on a Cross why did we need some Hypothetical Jesus.

And another thing.

5 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

So basically God went oh fuck Jacob will beat me i'll just break his hip! That's a loving God!

Now you Jesus loving freaks read this part of the Old Testament as it should be read! Not in light of the NT as people back in the days of the Scribes and even Jesus day did not have the NT to make things add up.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

So basically God went oh fuck Jacob will beat me i'll just break his hip! That's a loving God!

Not exactly. Earlier translations wrote:

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

The way I read it, Jacob basically wrestled this guy:

[KichigaiNeko]

Kinda makes you wonder eh?

Sounds like a scam to me

[Drich]

Hey Folks,

I have a question for the other Illusionist on this Forum.

Why did God need to send his son when in Genesis 32:22-32

So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.

And

Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

So my question is why the Fuck did we need Jesus when God himself is shown throughout the OT to actually be Physically Present to his believers.

Good questions. now allow me to provide a few answers in question form. what did Jesus do that 'God' did not do in the OT?

E.g. Sodom and Gomorrah story Abraham fed God and his two Angels?! Again why do we need Jesus? Why was God Almighty incarnate not sufficient to die on a Cross why did we need some Hypothetical Jesus.

How do you know the appearance of 'God' in the OT was not Jesus? Remember God is a title and not a name. Which means anytime the word 'God' appears in the OT it could (depending on context) be referencing God the Son or all 3 persons of God.

And another thing.

5 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

So basically God went oh fuck Jacob will beat me i'll just break his hip! That's a loving God!

what did the wrestling match repersent? Why does one wrestle with God?
Generally (as with jake) It's over one's desire to follow his own will over that of the expressed will of God. If Jake won, he would have lost his soul. what has a greater value? a normal stride? or eternal life? So does a loving God dislocate a leg? or allow one to be eternally lost, but while in this life maintain a normal stride?

Now you Jesus loving freaks read this part of the Old Testament as it should be read! Not in light of the NT as people back in the days of the Scribes and even Jesus day did not have the NT to make things add up.

[Doubting Thomas]

So my question is why the Fuck did we need Jesus when God himself is shown throughout the OT to actually be Physically Present to his believers.

We didn't. God just wanted to get his rocks off and he had a thing for young virgins.

[Cinjin]

So basically God went oh fuck Jacob will beat me i'll just break his hip! That's a loving God!

what did the wrestling match repersent? Why does one wrestle with God?
Generally (as with jake) It's over one's desire to follow his own will over that of the expressed will of God.

So much for free will huh Drich. If god don't get his way, he cripples you. (and eventually tortures you for all eternity) Sounds 'bout right.

[Cinjin]

So my question is why the Fuck did we need Jesus when God himself is shown throughout the OT to actually be Physically Present to his believers.

Because my friend ....

[Drich]

what did the wrestling match repersent? Why does one wrestle with God?
Generally (as with jake) It's over one's desire to follow his own will over that of the expressed will of God.

So much for free will huh Drich. If god don't get his way, he cripples you. (and eventually tortures you for all eternity) Sounds 'bout right.

Who said anything about free will? That is a greek based philosphy. We have a choice to make. Either to accept attonement or not. Otherwise we are all slaves to sin. Last I checked slaves don't have 'free will.'

[themonkeyman]

So much for free will huh Drich. If god don't get his way, he cripples you. (and eventually tortures you for all eternity) Sounds 'bout right.

Who said anything about free will? That is a greek based philosphy. We have a choice to make. Either to accept attonement or not. Otherwise we are all slaves to sin. Last I checked slaves don't have 'free will.'

Hi Drich,

Actually who said we were slaves to 'Sin'? This is the same 'Sin' that God himself created that we all fall foul of. This 'Sin' is also what God needed to die for because he wanted to bring us closer because of 'Sin' that he invented.

Who created 'Sin' God
Who created 'Satan' God
Who created 'Evil' God

[Drich]

Hi Drich,

Actually who said we were slaves to 'Sin'?

Jesus in John 8:34 and Paul in Romans 6.

This is the same 'Sin' that God himself created that we all fall foul of.

Sin is not a creation or tangable thing. It is the identification of being outside the expressed will of God.

This 'Sin' is also what God needed to die for because he wanted to bring us closer because of 'Sin' that he invented.

Christ died so we may understand the cost of redemption. His death was a physical manifestation of the 'spiritual' cost of redemption.

Who created 'Sin' God

Again Sin is not a tangable object therefore it was not 'created.' It is identified. Like the color red. we do not create the color we simply identify that color being reflected back from the visual spectrum. (We create pigments that reflect a given color, but not the color itself.)

Who created 'Satan' God

Hey you got one! I guess the old saying is true, even a blind squirrl finds a nut every now and again.

Who created 'Evil' God

Again evil is not a thing but an expression that identifies a person's heart and it's proxcimity to the expressed will of God.

Now God allows sin and Evil. And, He provides redemption from it.