Muslim Girls And Women

[pineapplebunnybounce]

You forget that most women are born into the religion and it is the norm for them. A lot of north american muslim women no longer cover up or wear loose clothing. The religion isn't nice to women, but women are born into it, some even believe that's women's role in this world. If you really want to understand how they think you should speak to them or browse some Islamic forums.

Paulpablo, plenty of muslim clerics have said that women deserve to be rape or at least is responsible for it if they do not cover up. Islam goes beyond what is written down in the qur'an, it's what people practice and claim is Islamic. Religion takes different shapes in different times because it's practiced by humans, just because it's not written down doesn't mean it isn't a feature of the religion, because in practice, it is.

[Lemonvariable72]

There's much better things to discuss when talking about some Muslim attitudes to rape, such as the need for male witnesses, or rapists being unpunished if they married the victim.

But just saying the religion of Islam says women who don't wear head coverings deserve to be raped, without providing any evidence from any Islamic document isn't really going to get you anywhere in a logical debate, apart from support from a few people on an atheist forum where getting support against Islam is like shooting fish in a barrel, this argument would be knocked down in a second on Islamic forums.

Oh I wasn't trying to make a argument agianst Islam, I'd have at least read the Quran for that. This is something really bobbles me.

[Mr Greene]

Egypt and many Muslim countries have a terrible record of sexual harassment. According to a survey conducted in 2008 by an Egyptian Women’s rights group, 83% of Egyptian women have been sexually harassed. The numbers for foreign women is a staggering 98%. Most of the men in the survey admitted they have harassed women and most of them blamed it on women for dressing provocatively. What is worse is that the majority of women in the survey believe that women who dress immodestly deserve the harassment.

Link

[Lemonvariable72]

Egypt and many Muslim countries have a terrible record of sexual harassment. According to a survey conducted in 2008 by an Egyptian Women’s rights group, 83% of Egyptian women have been sexually harassed. The numbers for foreign women is a staggering 98%. Most of the men in the survey admitted they have harassed women and most of them blamed it on women for dressing provocatively. What is worse is that the majority of women in the survey believe that women who dress immodestly deserve the harassment.

Link

I'm not surpirsed, though disgusted.

[Mr Greene]

The survey itself makes for some awkward reading...
link

[paulpablo]

You forget that most women are born into the religion and it is the norm for them. A lot of north american muslim women no longer cover up or wear loose clothing. The religion isn't nice to women, but women are born into it, some even believe that's women's role in this world. If you really want to understand how they think you should speak to them or browse some Islamic forums.

Paulpablo, plenty of muslim clerics have said that women deserve to be rape or at least is responsible for it if they do not cover up. Islam goes beyond what is written down in the qur'an, it's what people practice and claim is Islamic. Religion takes different shapes in different times because it's practiced by humans, just because it's not written down doesn't mean it isn't a feature of the religion, because in practice, it is.

But the quran tells men to not even stare at women in order to maintain chastity, so if someone has got from this message that women should be raped if they don't cover up then they're simply an idiot.

Muslims scholars in general believe the punishment for rape should be death.

It's up to you if you want to use this argument against Islam I'm just saying as an atheist who goes on Islamic forums I wouldn't use it because it just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

You might aswell say Islam condones alcoholism because Abdul, a guy you saw on youtube is an alcoholic and says the drinks deserve to be drank because the adverts are too good.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

You forget that most women are born into the religion and it is the norm for them. A lot of north american muslim women no longer cover up or wear loose clothing. The religion isn't nice to women, but women are born into it, some even believe that's women's role in this world. If you really want to understand how they think you should speak to them or browse some Islamic forums.

Paulpablo, plenty of muslim clerics have said that women deserve to be rape or at least is responsible for it if they do not cover up. Islam goes beyond what is written down in the qur'an, it's what people practice and claim is Islamic. Religion takes different shapes in different times because it's practiced by humans, just because it's not written down doesn't mean it isn't a feature of the religion, because in practice, it is.

But the quran tells men to not even stare at women in order to maintain chastity, so if someone has got from this message that women should be raped if they don't cover up then they're simply an idiot.

Muslims scholars in general believe the punishment for rape should be death.

It's up to you if you want to use this argument against Islam I'm just saying as an atheist who goes on Islamic forums I wouldn't use it because it just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

You might aswell say Islam condones alcoholism because Abdul, a guy you saw on youtube is an alcoholic and says the drinks deserve to be drank because the adverts are too good.

It's not an argument against Islam, it's an acknowledgement of the type of thinking that is spread by the religious authorities of this religion and that the belief is quite prevalent amongst muslims. It's not something as innocuous as alcohol and it needs dealing with. To pretend it doesn't happen or that it isn't connected to Islam doesn't really accomplish anything.

I have yet to see someone claim drinking alcohol is Islamic or preach about alcohol. So it's really not the same thing.

[Ksa]

It's not an argument against Islam, it's an acknowledgement of the type of thinking that is spread by the religious authorities of this religion and that the belief is quite prevalent amongst muslims. It's not something as innocuous as alcohol and it needs dealing with.

Correct! The type of thinking! I shall prove that:

You know that in Islam, eating pork and drinking alcohol is forbidden. Do you know where this prohibition comes from? From the Bible, in Leviticus 11:7-8 which says:

"And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you."

And in Proverbs 20:1: "Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."

Ephesians 5:18...Galatians 5:21...Proverbs 23:29-35...1 Corinthians 6:10...Proverbs 23:20-21...Galatians 5:19-21...

and in the book of Isaiah 5:11...1 Peter 5:8...1 Timothy 3:8...Leviticus 10:9...1 Corinthians 3:17235ewg23r23g523
23g5

I can give 10s of verses where it is mentioned in the Bible not to have alcohol. That's where the Muslims took it from. They are SO FUNDAMENTALIST and SO LITERALIST that they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ to the point of being more Christian than the Christians themselves.

Christians have pork and alcohol, you imagine, a non Christian saying he doesn't have Pork and alcohol because Jesus said not to. You imagine how profoundly imbedded they are in the literal practice of their scripture?

[paulpablo]

But the quran tells men to not even stare at women in order to maintain chastity, so if someone has got from this message that women should be raped if they don't cover up then they're simply an idiot.

Muslims scholars in general believe the punishment for rape should be death.

It's up to you if you want to use this argument against Islam I'm just saying as an atheist who goes on Islamic forums I wouldn't use it because it just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

You might aswell say Islam condones alcoholism because Abdul, a guy you saw on youtube is an alcoholic and says the drinks deserve to be drank because the adverts are too good.

It's not an argument against Islam, it's an acknowledgement of the type of thinking that is spread by the religious authorities of this religion and that the belief is quite prevalent amongst muslims. It's not something as innocuous as alcohol and it needs dealing with. To pretend it doesn't happen or that it isn't connected to Islam doesn't really accomplish anything.

I have yet to see someone claim drinking alcohol is Islamic or preach about alcohol. So it's really not the same thing.

But this isn't the original topic of the thread, the original topic is why do women join a religion that teaches women deserve to be raped if they don't cover up.
The religion based on the quran teaches that men shouldn't even stare at women in a sexual way so the religion plainly never says women deserve rape.

Rape is very much connected with Muslims, I imagine a lot of them are very sexually frustrated being surrounded by covered up women and not being allowed to even masturbate, I imagine them seeing a women who isn't covered for the first time is like a fat kid seeing cake for the first time.

In fact I wouldn't really be surprised if some of you did find that muhammad supported the rape of women in some hadith somewhere aswell.

[Mister Agenda]

Where does it say that in the quran?

I am so tired of this weak ass shit, like I'm supposed to believe that only the Quran informs Islam. Are you next going to claim that Hadiths, Sharia Law, and clerical fatwas are not Islam? We have never bought this feeble excuse so please stop trotting it out every time someone makes an uncomfortable observation.

Barbaric tribal customs informing barbaric tribal Muslims no more inform Islam than barbaric tribal customs informing barbaric tribal Christians informs Christianity. Raping women for not wearing scarves is not a feature of Islam. If Islam never existed and the Middle East was full of Orthodox Christians (the direction it was headed before Mohamed came along), we'd have OC women being raped for not wearing scarves by the same primitives under the label of a different religion. Religion exacerbates the situation, but any religion would do.

It's not an uncomfortable observation, it's a non sequitur.