Alqaeda is a U.S., Saudi and Israeli backed organization.

[EgoRaptor]

"internationalist but anti-globalization." You would have to use doublethink to wrap your mind around that one. No, I'm not "anti-imperialist" or "anti-militarist". All those are code words for anti-Western. I don't like militarism, but I am all for cultural imperialism.

Do you see the logical contradiction in your sentences about militarism? You're acting like the Holy Bible's ancient writers with all their logical contradictions in the sacred text.

My goodness! Going by that last sentence of yours, I can make a few guesses about you:

1) You're all for the Iraq invasion, which murdered their civilians for oil and defense industry profits.

2) You're for all the Native American genocide throughout American history.

3) You're a white segregationist in the deep south, and maybe even a Ku Klux Klan or Aryan Nations member.

4) You watch that crap on Fox Advertising, especially Bill O' Reilly and his insatiable support for the "White, Christian, male power structure".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raEex1yAW...A&index=44

1) Yes, I support the liberation of Iraq, although I think Bush could have found a better target.

2) No, I'm for imposing culture, not genociding people. Where did you get that idea?

3) No, once again I have no idea where you are getting this. I think race is a great swindle. The world would be a better place if we abolished the notion of race.

4) No actually, I hate Fox News. One of the great things about Western culture is that it can be openly criticized & is subject to change. I am not a social conservative, I am actually quite socially liberal.

[Brakeman]

Mine is that being identified as Jewish is not something I ever chose. I was born into it.

You were born into a family that self identified as "jewish."
That doesn't make it any more real or apt.

I was born in a baptist christian home, but I'm smart enough to not call myself baptist anymore because I don't believe or identify with that horse shit anymore.

There is a "southern baptist culture" that one could identify outside of the religion, but we generally just call it redneck stupidity.

Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?

I can cleanly say that I am not southern baptist even though my father is an ex-minister.

[max-greece]

Mine is that being identified as Jewish is not something I ever chose. I was born into it.

You were born into a family that self identified as "jewish."
That doesn't make it any more real or apt.

I was born in a baptist christian home, but I'm smart enough to not call myself baptist anymore because I don't believe or identify with that horse shit anymore.

There is a "southern baptist culture" that one could identify outside of the religion, but we generally just call it redneck stupidity.

Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?

I can cleanly say that I am not southern baptist even though my father is an ex-minister.

Imagine there was a country that decided to persecute Southern Baptists and that you lived there. Imagine further that they went off birth records so you're denials meant nothing. To them the fact that you were born Southern Baptist meant you were Southern Baptist and therefore to be persecuted.

Jews don't have to imagine that - it has happened. Judging by the politico-economic climate in parts of Europe, it may well be about to happen again.

"Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?"

Apparently its simply not my choice.

Get it now?

[I and I]

You were born into a family that self identified as "jewish."
That doesn't make it any more real or apt.

I was born in a baptist christian home, but I'm smart enough to not call myself baptist anymore because I don't believe or identify with that horse shit anymore.

There is a "southern baptist culture" that one could identify outside of the religion, but we generally just call it redneck stupidity.

Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?

I can cleanly say that I am not southern baptist even though my father is an ex-minister.

Imagine there was a country that decided to persecute Southern Baptists and that you lived there. Imagine further that they went off birth records so you're denials meant nothing. To them the fact that you were born Southern Baptist meant you were Southern Baptist and therefore to be persecuted.

Jews don't have to imagine that - it has happened. Judging by the politico-economic climate in parts of Europe, it may well be about to happen again.

"Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?"

Apparently its simply not my choice.

Get it now?

Jews were never the main target for persecution ever in history.

The nazis killed more than 20 million Russians, hated the Russians, wanted to invade Russia and "cleanse" that part of Slavic people, and conducted the largest invasion by far even today. 3 million german soldiers were used in the initial invasion of russia.

AT NO POINT WERE JEWS EVER ATTACKED ON THAT SCALE THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THAT.

not to mention the Japanese hatred for and killing 20 million Chinese......again, Jews have never experienced such attacks and oppression.

---

I will give 10,000 dollars to anyone that can tell me when the US stopped funding Alqaeda, what year was this?

The same year they stopped funding other terrorist groups and joined the war on terror?

What's your point, man?

Hello Nora
What year was that? The west Including the U.S. A couple of years ago directly assisted self admitted Alqaeda affiliates in toppling and overthrowing gaddafi in Libya. NATO became the air force for the ground Alqaeda troops that became the much needed help for them to finish off the Libyan military.

The U.S. Has been and is helping self admitted Alqaeda affiliates and radical Islamists that fight with these Alqaeda groups in Syria (this is failing miserably btw).

[Chas]

You really missed the point there.

You want to run the point by me again then?

Mine is that being identified as Jewish is not something I ever chose. I was born into it. For the vast majority of my life it is a non-issue and doesn't come up. The only times it does are either when I visit my family in Manchester, or, when some Ultra right wing fascist appears on the TV or in the papers blaming the Jews for the economic plight of Greece.

That's the point that I remember my history.

It is only 'your' history because you choose it to be.
You self-identify with something that has no meaning other than what you give it.
No one has the power to make it an issue unless you give them that power.

[phyrefly]

Readers would do well to go back to the formation of the states of Alabama and Georgia. This is the area that produced the origins of Al Qaeda, for while the Ticonderoga was entering the Persian Gulf (Sept 1879), theologians were molesting people in the South. The reader gets swiftly clued-up when noting that the Al Shish-kabab's recruit was from Daphne, Alabama, which links to the Kenya Mall attack, hailing from a location not far from Tensaw. Those boys from Tensaw were interested in gunpowder, which led to the Fort Mims massacre (see the dipshit, James Bond, tell us all about Fort Mims on YouTube). This massacre could be said to be one of America's first abortion-clinic protests, for the fetuses of the white women were literally let out of the womb by the Indians, into the environment to fend for themselves (an anti-capitalist gesture, for sure). Note too, that Benghazi lax security resonates with the story of Fort Mims and lax security.

'There is no doubt there is a Real.'
(Jacques Lacan)

[I and I]

You want to run the point by me again then?

Mine is that being identified as Jewish is not something I ever chose. I was born into it. For the vast majority of my life it is a non-issue and doesn't come up. The only times it does are either when I visit my family in Manchester, or, when some Ultra right wing fascist appears on the TV or in the papers blaming the Jews for the economic plight of Greece.

That's the point that I remember my history.

It is only 'your' history because you choose it to be.
You self-identify with something that has no meaning other than what you give it.
No one has the power to make it an issue unless you give them that power.

I don't choose what happened in the past.

[Brakeman]

Imagine there was a country that decided to persecute Southern Baptists and that you lived there. Imagine further that they went off birth records so you're denials meant nothing. To them the fact that you were born Southern Baptist meant you were Southern Baptist and therefore to be persecuted.

Jews don't have to imagine that - it has happened. Judging by the politico-economic climate in parts of Europe, it may well be about to happen again.

"Why can't you just admit that you're not jewish? Why do you cling to the nonsense?"

Apparently its simply not my choice.

Hogwash! According to your train of thought, judaism is defined by the actions of a bunch of lunatic nazis. Really?

So being jewish originally meant being a follower of the religion, but after some German haters began persecuting them in an inclusive manner, it now is just a club for prior persecution victims and their descendants?

That is pathetic isn't it? An extremely distant relative of mine was a Morman who orchestrated a massacre of christian settlers passing by on "mormon" land. So is "christian atheist" a legitimate term because they were persecuted by ignorant mormons?

You can't separate the jew from the religion no matter how it suits your personal prejudices.

[max-greece]

Jews were never the main target for persecution ever in history.

Right - and President Obama is a pixy who sprinkles fairy dust wherever he goes.

The nazis killed more than 20 million Russians, hated the Russians, wanted to invade Russia and "cleanse" that part of Slavic people, and conducted the largest invasion by far even today. 3 million german soldiers were used in the initial invasion of russia.

Hitler went to war with Russia - yes. Hated them? Probably.

Did he blame them for the financial ruin that befell Germany after WW1? Did Mein Kampf rant about them for chapter after chapter? Was Crystal Nacht about the Russians? Did he rise to power on an anti-russian platform? Did he set up the concentration camps to deal with the Russian problem?

Your number for the Russians killed seems a bit high to me but I'm not going to argue with it. Hitler didn't kill 20 million Jews, for sure, but that might largely be because there were never 20 million Jews to kill.

AT NO POINT WERE JEWS EVER ATTACKED ON THAT SCALE THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THAT.

There were 15 million Jews worldwide in the 1930's and he got a mere 6 million of them. I don't know what all the fuss was about.

not to mention the Japanese hatred for and killing 20 million Chinese......again, Jews have never experienced such attacks and oppression.

I'm not sure what point you are now trying to make. You think Jews didn't suffer enough? You want to throw some big numbers around? OK - try this one - Mao is credited with killing about 100 million Chinese people - he's the winner!!!

Yeah!!!

---

[/quote]

---

Hogwash! According to your train of thought, judaism is defined by the actions of a bunch of lunatic nazis. Really?

Erm - no, nobody mentioned what defines Judaism - the question was why I don't deny it?

So being jewish originally meant being a follower of the religion, but after some German haters began persecuting them in an inclusive manner, it now is just a club for prior persecution victims and their descendants?

Oh heavens no, we've had thousands of years of persecution. I'm sorry - did I give you the impression Hitler was the first? How very remiss of me. What Hitler did show, however, and for the umpteenth time, is that whatever I might choose to deny I will be marched off to a concentration camp and gassed whilst protesting that I am an atheist.

Throughout history Jews have been a target. This has primarily been at the hands of Christians but Moslems have had several good goes at it too.

The thing is - for anyone that really wants to eradicate Judaism the method is really very easy - just leave them alone and they will intergrate with society and disappear. Might take a century or 2 but eventually there won't be any left

That is pathetic isn't it? An extremely distant relative of mine was a Morman who orchestrated a massacre of christian settlers passing by on "mormon" land. So is "christian atheist" a legitimate term because they were persecuted by ignorant mormons?

Well again no. Judaism is actually more cultural than religious in the main (outside of the extreme fringe groups) and has been for a very long time. There is much more to being Jewish than the faith. I guess if you spent some time with a Jewish family - even an atheist one, you would see that they are often quite different from their fellow citizens in many ways.

You can't separate the Jew from the religion no matter how it suits your personal prejudices.

My personal prejudices? Mine?

I thought I had made this clear, perhaps I haven't. I live in Greece. I am not part of the small Jewish community here. Very few acquaintances here know I am Jewish. I don't hide it, but its not something I open a conversation with.

I am, basically, as far removed from the Jewish identity as it is possible to be, having be borne Jewish. I didn't even mention it on this forum for months. It is not how I identify myself. My Belief on this forum is stated as Atheist - pure and simple. I do not identify myself as a Jewish Atheist. It appears I am everything you think I should be, but......others tend not to agree with either of us.

[I and I]

Jews were never the main target for persecution ever in history.

Right - and President Obama is a pixy who sprinkles fairy dust wherever he goes.

The nazis killed more than 20 million Russians, hated the Russians, wanted to invade Russia and "cleanse" that part of Slavic people, and conducted the largest invasion by far even today. 3 million german soldiers were used in the initial invasion of russia.

Hitler went to war with Russia - yes. Hated them? Probably.

Did he blame them for the financial ruin that befell Germany after WW1? Did Mein Kampf rant about them for chapter after chapter? Was Crystal Nacht about the Russians? Did he rise to power on an anti-russian platform? Did he set up the concentration camps to deal with the Russian problem?

Your number for the Russians killed seems a bit high to me but I'm not going to argue with it. Hitler didn't kill 20 million Jews, for sure, but that might largely be because there were never 20 million Jews to kill.

AT NO POINT WERE JEWS EVER ATTACKED ON THAT SCALE THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THAT.

There were 15 million Jews worldwide in the 1930's and he got a mere 6 million of them. I don't know what all the fuss was about.

not to mention the Japanese hatred for and killing 20 million Chinese......again, Jews have never experienced such attacks and oppression.

I'm not sure what point you are now trying to make. You think Jews didn't suffer enough? You want to throw some big numbers around? OK - try this one - Mao is credited with killing about 100 million Chinese people - he's the winner!!!

Yeah!!!

---

---

Hogwash! According to your train of thought, judaism is defined by the actions of a bunch of lunatic nazis. Really?

Erm - no, nobody mentioned what defines Judaism - the question was why I don't deny it?

So being jewish originally meant being a follower of the religion, but after some German haters began persecuting them in an inclusive manner, it now is just a club for prior persecution victims and their descendants?

Oh heavens no, we've had thousands of years of persecution. I'm sorry - did I give you the impression Hitler was the first? How very remiss of me. What Hitler did show, however, and for the umpteenth time, is that whatever I might choose to deny I will be marched off to a concentration camp and gassed whilst protesting that I am an atheist.

Throughout history Jews have been a target. This has primarily been at the hands of Christians but Moslems have had several good goes at it too.

The thing is - for anyone that really wants to eradicate Judaism the method is really very easy - just leave them alone and they will intergrate with society and disappear. Might take a century or 2 but eventually there won't be any left

That is pathetic isn't it? An extremely distant relative of mine was a Morman who orchestrated a massacre of christian settlers passing by on "mormon" land. So is "christian atheist" a legitimate term because they were persecuted by ignorant mormons?

Well again no. Judaism is actually more cultural than religious in the main (outside of the extreme fringe groups) and has been for a very long time. There is much more to being Jewish than the faith. I guess if you spent some time with a Jewish family - even an atheist one, you would see that they are often quite different from their fellow citizens in many ways.

You can't separate the Jew from the religion no matter how it suits your personal prejudices.

My personal prejudices? Mine?

I thought I had made this clear, perhaps I haven't. I live in Greece. I am not part of the small Jewish community here. Very few acquaintances here know I am Jewish. I don't hide it, but its not something I open a conversation with.

I am, basically, as far removed from the Jewish identity as it is possible to be, having be borne Jewish. I didn't even mention it on this forum for months. It is not how I identify myself. My Belief on this forum is stated as Atheist - pure and simple. I do not identify myself as a Jewish Atheist. It appears I am everything you think I should be, but......others tend not to agree with either of us.
[/quote]

Fact: Hitler didn't come to power on a platform of anti-Jewish ranting, the nazis and zionists were collaborators during and before the war. Zionism wasn't popular among Jews so they needed all the help they could get and the nazi government helped the zionists with their plans for establishing a Jewish state and plans for settling Jews in the Middle East. The Zionist and Jewish business block was necessary to rebuild German economy after the depression. In fact you can go back and look at news paper photos of articles from American zionist groups at the time agreeing not to boycott the German economy during this rebuilding. The Zionist Jewish economic block was instrumental in helping nazi Germany rebuild it's military and economy and getting hitler elected. Not to mention every other western nation collaborating with nazis before-during-after ww2.

Ever hear of the transfer agreement?

At no point in history was there a forced mass exodus of believers in Judaism from any land. If you have any evidence to counter this claim feel free to provide it.

Yes, anti-communism was a huge platform for nazis, it was so huge that everyone else slobbed on hitlers knob and let him remilitarize Germany in hopes that he would be able to strangle communism in Russia. This is after the west had troops in Russia ready to invade after ww1.........yet we are told that those evil Commies were the aggressors during the Cold War. Fucking please.