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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:19 am
(March 7, 2014 at 3:05 am)fr0d0 Wrote: He had already made that point which clearly answered the question. You asked it again like it wasn't answered. I get that you're frustrated, but you are condemned by your own judgement. He didn't resort to name calling as you did, yet he has far more reason to. Make a point or don't say anything. Throwing insults is what you do when you've lost.
My point is the same as it has always been: no matter the particular words the bible uses, what it describes is a situation in which desperate, penniless people are left with no choice but to enter into a system of slavery or continue in their destitution until they die, that they can be passed on as inheritance- which is something you can only do with property- and that there's no sense in which forcing a person to work for no money while being passed down the family line like that is not immoral. There's so much in the bible that supports that this is the context in which these words are employed, and yet Huggy's response is to harp on individual words in order to twist the meaning of whole sentences.
Not to mention, he's spent an awful lot of time avoiding points that I've made; when I call him on the fact that even as a matter of simple grammar his claim of what the bible says makes no sense (it's "a possession," which doesn't jive with his claim that it means "take possession.") he just skips over it. He tries the usual sloppy apologetic of attempting to talk solely about the seven year Jewish slavery, and when called on the fact that there's more than just that one type he just moves on as if he hadn't just lied. He presents one example of a willing slave and then attempts to push it as a template for all of them, and when I respond with an example of an unwilling slave... nothing.
I responded with insults because I don't think enlarging the text in one of my quotes to score a petty point is really a response, especially when I spelled out in several posts before that what I was actually asking, which has gone ignored. He'd rather do his victory dance over the fact that I used one wrong word, while my actual point remains unanswered.
You want to talk about things being already answered? Aside from pointing out that I incorrectly used the word "noun," where has he answered the question that I actually asked, which is this: can you see no difference between "X person is a possession," and "X person will be taken possession."?
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:24 am
Yes we get it esq. No matter what the source actually says you are prepared to ignore that. I don't see that as an actual objection.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:28 am
(March 7, 2014 at 3:24 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes we get it esq. No matter what the source actually says you are prepared to ignore that. I don't see that as an actual objection.
The source actually says they will be "passed down as a possession," so I think it's quite a pertinent objection.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:34 am
Is it just me or does huggy and Frodo never post at the same time?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:41 am
(This post was last modified: March 7, 2014 at 3:43 am by fr0d0.)
(March 7, 2014 at 3:28 am)Esquilax Wrote: The source actually says they will be "passed down as a possession," so I think it's quite a pertinent objection.
You're repeating the ignorance that has already been demonstrated to you. There really is nothing more to say.
(March 7, 2014 at 3:34 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Is it just me or does huggy and Frodo never post at the same time?
Theorising conspiracies is good scepticism. It's also a sign of madness.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:46 am
(March 7, 2014 at 3:41 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You're repeating the ignorance that has already been demonstrated to you. There really is nothing more to say.
How has it been demonstrated? Please, enlighten me if you think that a valid point has been made. Perhaps I missed it; let's turn this sniping match into a dialogue.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 3:50 am
(March 7, 2014 at 3:41 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Theorising conspiracies is good scepticism. It's also a sign of madness.
That's exactly what a sock puppet-master would say.....
And I hardly think theorising about the possibility of one member of the forum having a sock account, is a sign of madness.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 4:10 am
(March 7, 2014 at 3:46 am)Esquilax Wrote: (March 7, 2014 at 3:41 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You're repeating the ignorance that has already been demonstrated to you. There really is nothing more to say.
How has it been demonstrated? Please, enlighten me if you think that a valid point has been made. Perhaps I missed it; let's turn this sniping match into a dialogue.
If you have something new to say, that hasn't already been answered, please state it. Repeating arguments already fully answered is pointless.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 4:49 am
(March 7, 2014 at 4:10 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If you have something new to say, that hasn't already been answered, please state it. Repeating arguments already fully answered is pointless.
Okay, here's what I'mma ask you to do: go back up to my first post on this page, and read that. No matter what you think of me, it's pretty clear that I don't think those questions and contentions have been satisfactorily answered. If you think they have, if it turns out I've missed something that addresses those points, then point it out to me, and we can go from there.
But don't just sit there and tap dance around while asserting that my points have been rebutted, that's useless.
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RE: Slavery (on Thursdays)
March 7, 2014 at 6:50 am
(March 6, 2014 at 11:16 am)Huggy74 Wrote:
already been over this many times.
show me in the King James version where it "explicitly states" people be owned as property Pinsir, Esquilax and others have already covered this. You've deliberately ignored the proof many times and are being disingenuous. That means you must concede this point and accept that the bible mandates the ownership of people as property. I hope for greater honesty in the other parts of our discussion.
Quote:Quote:2. Your failure to directly answer the questions
I'll answer your question and in turn i'll ask you a direct yes or no
question, do you believe the words "property' an "possession" to mean the same thing?
Depending on context, they can. The context in the bible is clear, they do.
Quote:Quote:So to your answers:
1. It matters not whether the society was feudal, agrarian, capitalist, communist, anarchist or anything else. So I'll rephrase my question to (hopefully!) make you commit to a direct answer: given the opportunity, would you own another person as property?
No
Why not?
Quote:Quote:2. Once again a dodge. Your mortgage does not strip you of your right to self-determination. So once again, I'll rephrase: would you submit to being stripped of your right to self-determination?
yes
For the sake of clarity, I'll restate what I meant here: would you submit to being owned as property?
Sum ergo sum
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