The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave

[Minimalist]

Yeah, that's kind of the point at issue, isn't it, you simpleton?

You can call me a simpleton as long as I am loved of the Lord. He loves you too!

[Godlesspanther]

Yeah, that's kind of the point at issue, isn't it, you simpleton?

You can call me a simpleton as long as I am loved of the Lord. He loves you too!

You re doing a great job of making your cult unappealing. In fact, you are making that entire construct look downright repulsive. You do not appear to have a single original thought in your head. Every idea you have has been planted by the cult's doctrine.

Outside of your bubble, we do not see being mindfucked into believing stupid stuff to be in any way admirable or virtuous.

When you spout this stuff that is absolutely not true, and do so adamantly, you are giving a clear message that you cannot be trusted. Your cult cannot be trusted.

I wonder who the scumbag conman is whom you have chosen to mindlessly follow. You don't realize it but it is you, not us, who needs to be saved. Are you really going to continue to believe whatever that asshole says without question? If so, that's sad. Poison kook-aid in Guyana?

If you want to look at moral obligations to the society in which we live -- we have a moral obligation to reject your sick twisted cult and encourage others to do the same.

What you believe is just a pack of lies, and you make that more obvious every time you post more idiotic codswallop.

Ask yourself honestly -- why do you want so much for other people to believe the lies of your cult? Perhaps it is because you know that the whole thing is a crock of shit and the more people you can get to believe it, the more comfortable you will feel believing stuff that is obviously not true. It's very selfish, but that is to be expected from an anti-social cult.

As I see it -- I have absolutely no reason to even consider joining your cult -- countless very good solid reasons not to, and you have plenty of good solid reasons to abandon your cult. Being able to actually think for yourself is a real plus in life.

Try it.

[DeistPaladin]

Concerning Satan - Gen 3:1 combined with Rev 20:2

OK, let's go to the tape:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Sometimes a snake is just a snake. The serpent was just a "beast of the field". In other words, an animal. There's nothing supernatural about this animal (most of them could talk in Genesis, as Noah later demonstrated). The fact that Eve was not the least bit surprised that it could talk underscores that this was how things worked prior to the Flood.

No mention of Satan. No mention of possession. No mention of any manipulation by any supernatural being.

It's a "just so" story to explain why snakes have no legs.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

The oblique reference to "that old serpent" is a Christian ret-con to tie in Christian theology to the OT. However, let that go for now. The verse says the serpent IS the Devil, not possessed by the devil.

[Crossless2.0]

I'll try this once more. Rev, in your own words please attempt to explain why atheists do not think the Bible is good evidence for your various claims. I'm curious to see if you can step out of your little bubble for just a minute and engage people in an honest, constructive way. Please don't dodge this request again.

If you can't or won't even try, your witness here is utterly worthless and you're just wasting everyone's time.

[Foxaèr]

Reason 1:1 Every concept in relation to religion is man-made.
Reason 1:2 Refuse to believe a religious lie as a truth.
Reason 1:3 Shake off those rose-colored glasses.
Reason 1:4 Reality is much more pleasing than a fictional false comfort.

I could go on and on about the Book of Reason, which is a far better guide to living than the unholy babble.

[Rampant.A.I.]

Ah, yes.

If God said it, I believe it. He let me know the condition of my soul. My actions verified it. The newspaper verifies the condition of the world in which we live.

How many direct quotes from God are actually in the NT?

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bibl...Testament/

As far as the world falling apart and signs of the end times:

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

- Socrates, in a passage about the decline of civilization.

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control." -- attributed to an inscription in an Ancient Egyptian tomb, quoted in Buckminster Fuller's I Seem To Be a Verb

For a list of predictions of Armageddon:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_pre..._the_world

[JesusHChrist]

Yes, Rev, here's the deal.

Your claims, like any other theist of any other religion, are based on several things:

1. You think the Bible is true. You no doubt don't think the Koran is true nor the Book of Mormon nor the scribblings of L Ron Hubbard. And you no doubt have good reasons. Our reasons for rejecting the Bible as truth are also very good. Very very good. Just as good as your reasons for rejecting all the others.

2. You claim to know things based on personal revelation. Awesome! Unfortunately, utterly meaningless for those not receiving such revelations. Also unfortunate is many before received revelations -- Mohamed and Joseph Smith and that JW guy for example. Do you accept their revelations? I'm guessing not.

3. Lastly, you can try and logic your way to your god with arguments such as first cause, design or whatever. Again, most unfortunate as logic alone (and the misuse of logic) has proven to be virtually worthless in describing reality. Examples abound -- the ancients thought heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects. Nobody thought to test empirically until Galileo. Logic was wrong. Then there was Ptolemy and his epi-cycles. "Proof" for how the celestial bodies moved. Again. wrong. The world is made of fire, earth, water and air. Obviously. Obvious, but wrong. And now, we have quantum mechanics where it is a virtual certainty weirdness abounds. We don't get to "knowing" much of anything without repeatable, testable observation. That's it. Works like a charm too. Better than anything any god can do.

Faith as a way of "knowing" is worthless.

[DeistPaladin]

Oh, look! Someone has broken out the topical Bible.

In fairness, I did ask him for chapter and verse.

For me, I'm trying to take it in baby steps.

Step 1: "Learn how to crawl" Chapter and verse please so I know you're at least not making it up as you go along (i.e. his assertions that Satan spoke through the snake in Genesis).
Step 2: "Learn how to walk" Make sure your views are logically consistent so it rises to the level of a plausible hypothesis (i.e. why would a god need to sacrifice himself to convince himself to change a rule he made in the first place?)
Step 3: "Learn how to run and jump and dance" OK, now prove it.

You see, we're so used to operating around step 3 and forming our views according to the evidence. He hasn't developed those thinking muscles yet. It's like asking a newborn baby to start running about.

Baby steps.

[Crossless2.0]

Oh, look! Someone has broken out the topical Bible.

In fairness, I did ask him for chapter and verse.

For me, I'm trying to take it in baby steps.

Step 1: "Learn how to crawl" Chapter and verse please so I know you're at least not making it up as you go along (i.e. his assertions that Satan spoke through the snake in Genesis).
Step 2: "Learn how to walk" Make sure your views are logically consistent so it rises to the level of a plausible hypothesis (i.e. why would a god need to sacrifice himself to convince himself to change a rule he made in the first place?)
Step 3: "Learn how to run and jump and dance" OK, now prove it.

You see, we're so used to operating around step 3 and forming our views according to the evidence. He hasn't developed those thinking muscles yet. It's like asking a newborn baby to start running about.

Baby steps.

Fair enough, but don't bet too much money on his getting past step one.

[Ravenshire]

Are you fucking kidding me?!? I've been hearing this shit for 45 fucking years and it's always "just around the corner." Worse, you christers have been spewing this shit for a couple thousand years and "his return" has always been imminent.

Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Two fucking THOUSAND years later and their prom date still hasn't shown up. Guess what. The holy zombie ain't gonna make it back. Hell, he was never here in the first place. If you want to believe he was, fine. If you want me to believe it you'll need to present some real, testable, verifiable evidence.

Evidence is the key!

Evidence or STFU!

As far as imminence goes, I can't answer it better than the Bible. 2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Wow. I point out that your prom date is wayyyy fucking late picking you up and you choose to respond by answering the idea of imminence with a long quote about doubters. You completely miss the point that jebus clearly expected some of the people he was addressing to NOT FUCKING DIE before he returned. Oops.

Please explain this. No dodging, ducking or evading.

And, you never answered my earlier question.
If a bastard can not enter the congregation of the lord (means he can't worship gawd) then how the did he allegedly manage it?!? Please don't try to tell me he was legitimate through Joseph. That's just plain bullshit! Nobody gets two real daddies. He was either the son of gawd and a bastard or the son of Joseph and no more holy than anyone else. Pick one, but only one.

Both God and man...The child that was conceived in her was of the Holy Spirit.

What does this shit even mean? are you claiming that gawd fathered him? If that is the case, how can he "enter into the congregation of the lord" (you know, worship gawd) if he's born to unwed parents?

Are you claiming Joseph fathered him? That would make him no more holy than you.

Or, are you claiming the holy spirit (whatever the fuck that is) fathered him? See above about the congregation and all that.

Please try to actually answer the questions asked.