Eugenics targets Racial Minorities

[No_God]

Some misscarriages require a D&C to pass the dead fetal tissue. Same with stillbirths. So dismemberment is common.

[Phatt Matt s]

Wouldn't that only be necessary if the Baby was fairly well developed? Those who I've known with misscarriages who spoke about it didn't require the fetus getting hacked up. Women have died from these "safe" abortions when sharp instruments are used, so there is always a risk that shouldn't be taken unless it is a last resort.

[DeistPaladin]

I don't think it's entirely poisoning the well in the sense that the organization itself is not intrinsically racist that I know of.

And that's really the point.

Sir Issac Newton was a horrible, nasty human being. He also believed in crazy things like alchemy and Biblical prophecy. That doesn't mean that either his discoveries in the laws of physics or the science of physics is tainted by either his rudeness or his unrelated crackpottery.

Science ignores what the scientist is like and it disregards any crazy things the scientist might also believe. You can be a truly horrid human being and come up with 1000 batshit ideas and then make one verifiable discovery and science will embrace that one discovery on its own merit.

Back to the OP and how this relates, you can say what you like about the founder of Planned Parenthood or, for that matter, certain specific contributors, but unless you can make a case that the organization itself is racist, these allegations has nothing to do with the organization, let alone the pro-choice movement.

But knowing women that have had abortions, it can hurt women as well.

This is the fallacy of anecdotal evidence (or the "limited sample" pitfall of statistical analysis). This kind of argument is emotionally persuasive but can lead us to the wrong conclusions. All the Catholic girls I've slept with are hot but that doesn't mean that I should conclude all Catholic girls, or even most Catholic girls, are great in bed. It's important to get large and randomized statistical samples of a population before we can gain confidence about statements we make about a population.

I don't know the women you know but another question that pops into mind is are you certain these women were hurt by the abortions? A fallacy we need to be careful of, and is so easy to fall into, is the fallacy of confusing correlation with causation.

Did you know that violent crime rates rise in direct correlation with ice cream sales? Does that mean we should ban ice cream for causing violent crime?

In the above case, ice cream sales go up in the summer. Violent crime rates also increase during the summer for whatever reason. The two are correlated because they share a common cause, not because one causes the other. Perhaps the harm to women you refer to has other causes?

The anti-choice movement likes to assert that abortions are psychologically or medically harmful to women but none of these assertions have gained any support in either the medical or psychological communities.

However, abortion and sterilization can also be a means of extermination and genocide.

And?

Because a practice can be used for nefarious purposes doesn't necessarily mean the practice itself is nefarious.

I've seen how abortion clinics are strategically placed in certain locations under the disguise of healthcare for struggling African American women.

Is that because they're targeting and deceiving certain population groups or because they are located where demand is highest? And many abortion clinics ARE also healthcare resources. Planned Parenthood is more than just abortions. Family planning, contraception, and other medical services are part of their mission.

[No_God]

Wouldn't that only be necessary if the Baby was fairly well developed? Those who I've known with misscarriages who spoke about it didn't require the fetus getting hacked up. Women have died from these "safe" abortions when sharp instruments are used, so there is always a risk that shouldn't be taken unless it is a last resort.

No, it all depends on the women's body. Say I'm 7 or 8 weeks pregnant and I miscarry... If my cervix doesn't dilate wide enough to pass the embryo I will need a D&C. This happens all the fucking time. D&C is the SAME procedure used for surgical abortions up to 12 weeks gestation (legally). So, the dismemberment you see in those "abortion" photos can very well be miscarriages that required a D&C procedure.

[Phatt Matt s]

K i stand corrected and informed. The last women I knew had three miscarriages but the baby was the size of a plumb when it came out.

[DeistPaladin]

No, it all depends on the women's body. Say I'm 7 or 8 weeks pregnant and I miscarry... If my cervix doesn't dilate wide enough to pass the embryo I will need a D&C. This happens all the fucking time. D&C is the SAME procedure used for surgical abortions up to 12 weeks gestation (legally). So, the dismemberment you see in those "abortion" photos can very well be miscarriages that required a D&C procedure.

My wife told me a horror story about one woman's experience here in my home town. Almost across the street from the Planned Parenthood clinic is a faux abortion clinic run by pro-lifers. The woman, who was married and she and her husband already endured the upset of the miscarriage, was in for more emotional upset when she walked into the wrong clinic. The pro-life operators of the faux woman's clinic kept thinking she was there for an abortion when she needed to be cleaned out before the corpse of the fetus became gangrenous. Getting the runaround and the series of lectures was the last thing she needed.

It really underscores the insensitivity of the pro-life idiots that harass and cat-call the women who enter the clinic. While working as a volunteer human shield, I was supposed to remain quiet and I did, but every part of me wanted to tell them, "You don't know her story so stop assuming she slept around because it fits your internal narrative."

[Phatt Matt s]

I don't think it's entirely poisoning the well in the sense that the organization itself is not intrinsically racist that I know of.

And that's really the point.

Sir Issac Newton was a horrible, nasty human being. He also believed in crazy things like alchemy and Biblical prophecy. That doesn't mean that either his discoveries in the laws of physics or the science of physics is tainted by either his rudeness or his unrelated crackpottery.

Science ignores what the scientist is like and it disregards any crazy things the scientist might also believe. You can be a truly horrid human being and come up with 1000 batshit ideas and then make one verifiable discovery and science will embrace that one discovery on its own merit.

Back to the OP and how this relates, you can say what you like about the founder of Planned Parenthood or, for that matter, certain specific contributors, but unless you can make a case that the organization itself is racist, these allegations has nothing to do with the organization, let alone the pro-choice movement.

But knowing women that have had abortions, it can hurt women as well.

This is the fallacy of anecdotal evidence (or the "limited sample" pitfall of statistical analysis). This kind of argument is emotionally persuasive but can lead us to the wrong conclusions. All the Catholic girls I've slept with are hot but that doesn't mean that I should conclude all Catholic girls, or even most Catholic girls, are great in bed. It's important to get large and randomized statistical samples of a population before we can gain confidence about statements we make about a population.

I don't know the women you know but another question that pops into mind is are you certain these women were hurt by the abortions? A fallacy we need to be careful of, and is so easy to fall into, is the fallacy of confusing correlation with causation.

Did you know that violent crime rates rise in direct correlation with ice cream sales? Does that mean we should ban ice cream for causing violent crime?

In the above case, ice cream sales go up in the summer. Violent crime rates also increase during the summer for whatever reason. The two are correlated because they share a common cause, not because one causes the other. Perhaps the harm to women you refer to has other causes?

The anti-choice movement likes to assert that abortions are psychologically or medically harmful to women but none of these assertions have gained any support in either the medical or psychological communities.

However, abortion and sterilization can also be a means of extermination and genocide.

And?

Because a practice can be used for nefarious purposes doesn't necessarily mean the practice itself is nefarious.

I've seen how abortion clinics are strategically placed in certain locations under the disguise of healthcare for struggling African American women.

Is that because they're targeting and deceiving certain population groups or because they are located where demand is highest? And many abortion clinics ARE also healthcare resources. Planned Parenthood is more than just abortions. Family planning, contraception, and other medical services are part of their mission.

The title is about Eugeics not the pro-choice movement. Now, anyone breeding cattle knows that you breed the cattle that have the best genetics and strength in the areas that they are needed for. I hate to see human misery and suffering. If Eugenics will relieve suffering and create a better future for the world, then I'm for it.

Eugenics isn't the same thing as this conversation has become on this thread which is perhaps mainly my fault. Some Eugenicists simply are compassionate and thoughtfull people who wish to find ways to improve future generations through selective reproduction. If this will relieve human suffering and create a better world for our grand and great grandchildren, I'm all for it.

The problem is, Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party were the epitome of this mentality and I think we should be concerned about how barbaric the end result of these standards could become: Breed large families with couples who have normal or superior intelligence, physical health, and emotional stability. Sterilize the feeble minded and weak for the better of society.

Who then becomes the ultimate authority to decide who can breed and who cannot? African American women have in fact gone through forced sterilization thanks to the Eugenics movement, but since Eugenics has very limited power due to the moral objections primarily from "Religious" people, Eugenics cannot show it's ugly head. Now adays, only the greatest of Imbeciles would actually come out and declare their desire to see the sterilization of "undesirable races".

It is in fact true that some donors of planned parenthood will make sure, prior to donating money, that it will be used entirely for the sterilization, contracepting, and aborting African Americans because they want as few blacks in this country as possible.

Whether or not planned parenthood is racist...racist people love planned parenthood. Planned parenthood has wiped out an enormous percentage of the black population in America and those in America with a racist agenda rejoice.

But thank you Deist Paladin, unlike Chas, who just shows up on multiple of my threads to basically just call me a dumbshit, you actually provide a wise, articulate, and educated wealth of information and reason in defense of your views, so I read with admiration your posts, and duly make note and consideration of what you have to say.

Peace be with you my friend!

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Today, 18:36 (This post was last modified: Today 18:36 by No_God.) Post: #105
No_God
Senior Member

Religious Views: Wine, lots and lots of wine. Posts: 603
Joined: 20th January 2014
Reputation: 14

RE: Is there anyone here that is NOT depressed?
I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the generalization of the people on this forum. His post kinda touched on a point I was about to get into.

I was addressing the issue that excessive internet use may exaggerate depression symptoms or may even cause it in some people. I can kinda speak on this matter from experience. The internet can make me very depressed sometimes. It like drains the life out of me it's weird... I can't really explain it.

Of course, correlation isn't causation. The study between depression and internet use definitely needs to be looked into more.


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No, it all depends on the women's body. Say I'm 7 or 8 weeks pregnant and I miscarry... If my cervix doesn't dilate wide enough to pass the embryo I will need a D&C. This happens all the fucking time. D&C is the SAME procedure used for surgical abortions up to 12 weeks gestation (legally). So, the dismemberment you see in those "abortion" photos can very well be miscarriages that required a D&C procedure.

My wife told me a horror story about one woman's experience here in my home town. Almost across the street from the Planned Parenthood clinic is a faux abortion clinic run by pro-lifers. The woman, who was married and she and her husband already endured the upset of the miscarriage, was in for more emotional upset when she walked into the wrong clinic. The pro-life operators of the faux woman's clinic kept thinking she was there for an abortion when she needed to be cleaned out before the corpse of the fetus became gangrenous. Getting the runaround and the series of lectures was the last thing she needed.

It really underscores the insensitivity of the pro-life idiots that harass and cat-call the women who enter the clinic. While working as a volunteer human shield, I was supposed to remain quiet and I did, but every part of me wanted to tell them, "You don't know her story so stop assuming she slept around because it fits your internal narrative."

Great point! Thank you!

[DeistPaladin]

The title is about Eugeics not the pro-choice movement.

Well, don't I just feel embarrassed then.

Looks like I just played "Opus" in a memorable Bloom County strip:

PHIL DONAHUE: "Hello, you're on the air."

OPUS: "Yes, I'd just like to say there's nothing wrong with penguin lust and anyone who says so is just an old prude."

PHIL DONAHUE: "Uh, that's great but today's topic is nun beating."

OPUS: "Well, good lord man, I can't support that."

[Mister Agenda]

Oh so the mentality that existed among the founders of planned parenthood and the Eugenics movement doesn't exist today. If you strongly believe that, thank you for demonstrating your brain capacity for thinking rationally.

People will be more subtle and use terms like assisting African american women, charitable outreach for struggling African Americans.

With all the posts you've made on this forum and all the answers you've gotten, you still think it's more likely that in a given situation it'll be someone besides you showing a deficiency in ability to think rationally?

Black women get abortions at a higher rate because they are more likely to be in a situation where they become pregnant and realize they're not in a position to birth or raise a child...and the one thing that never seems to occur to people who want to control women's reproductive choices is to improve the situation of black women so they are less likely to have unwanted pregancies.

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I didn't say everyone for abotrtion thinks that way. In fact, if you read my posts on this thread, you would know that in certain cases I see abortion as a good thing. I don't claim with certainty that I'm right, but that is my opinion.

Unlike you who boldly assert everything you say like you know with certainty and the other person is full of shit! That isn't my cup of tea or my tactics in a debate. It really destroys your credibility when proven wrong.

To prove the other side wrong, you would need to prove that there are more than a few aberrant individuals thinking that way. There would have to be a LOT of people thinking that way for it to have a significant racially differential effect on abortion rates.

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No problem...Yeah...more black babies aborted in New York than born = no problem

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/...parenthood


40% of black pregnancies end in abortion.

You don't have to show it's a problem for you to be correct. You have to show it's eugenics. THAT is your claim.

I think I have more respect for those who are openly racist than someone who targets minorities under the pretense/disguise of healthcare services for the needy and disenfrachised.

At this point, if I know nothing else about someone than that you don't respect them, I consider that a point in favor of them being rational and having integrity.

Not because you lack integrity, btw: you've shown an ability to reconsider your positions that I admire. However, your initial positions (that you've reported here so far) tend to be the result of swallowing garbage you never bothered to examine critically.

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Black people abort black babies?

You are correct, sir!

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Black people abort black babies?

Every abortion doc ive seen here in montana or new york was white.

And you can't think of any alternative explanations for that than 'because eugenics'? Who decides to have the abortion?

What are the ratios? What are the numbers of abortions per 100,000?

If African Americans made up even 25% of the population in America, your premise might not be totally irrational.

Is that your way of saying 'I have no idea?'

Tor, the reason Maragaret Sanger and the other fathers/mothers of Eugenics and planned parenthood could be open about their racist agenda, was because at that time there were segregation laws, and racism was more acceptable.

So was eugenics.

Now a days the only Eugenicists that would make such statements would be Neo Nazi's or some other blatantly racist group.

Care to offer some evidence that blatantly racist groups have any tendency to be pro-choice?

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I also know that Neo Nazi's and other racist groups or individuals donate money to planned parenthood with the orders that it be used specifically for and exclusively for African American women.

Given your record on being wrong about things you claim to know, I give this claim all the credence due to it.

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As my Google-fu is weak, especially at work, anyone have evidence for or against the assertion that Planned Parenthood accepts donations from racist groups and follows instructions to only use the money to sterilize black women or abort black fetuses?

[Phatt Matt s]

"With all the posts you've made on this forum and all the answers you've gotten, you still think it's more likely that in a given situation it'll be someone besides you showing a deficiency in ability to think rationally?""

That's not what I think in most situations.
However, in this particlar instance
"Oh so the mentality that existed among the founders of planned parenthood and the Eugenics movement doesn't exist today. If you strongly believe that, thank you for demonstrating your brain capacity for thinking rationally."...Okay you disagree? Explain please

And you can't think of any alternative explanations for that than 'because eugenics'?"" NOt my point at all. He said blacks abort blacks and I was simply stating that the person knifing the child isn't black in the cases I've seen. It was a silly point and my apologies but was relevant to what he said. Forget it!


"your initial positions (that you've reported here so far) tend to be the result of swallowing garbage you never bothered to examine critically."

And you are the authority that determines my sources to be garbage and those that support your Agenda are fact?...got it!

Care to offer some evidence that blatantly racist groups have any tendency to be pro-choice?"" They admire the fact that abortion and sterilization has kept the black population down and a black child is more than three times likely to be aborted than a white child.

If you want to know my source on blatantly racist groups wanting blacks whiped out through abortion, contraception, and sterilization watch this video: http://www.maafa21.com/ (Documentary I did NOT find or watch on the Internet btw)

Reletives of martin Luther king and other African Americans involved in the Civil Rights movement chipped in

"Given your record on being wrong about things you claim to know, I give this claim all the credence due to it"""

Mr. Agenda, (you really have an agenda btw), What I do not find favoreably impressive about you is how you immediately assume that since my opinion differs from yours I've been swallowing bullshit/garbage. And that video and website is garbage?

You know this how?