WLC free will and omniscience

[fr0d0]

From MY point of view I am free. From gods point of view I can't avoid to choose what I will choose in future. So how can he judge me for something I can't avoid?

Because those are the choices you made (Gods perspective) or will make (your perspective). How can his foreknowledge change your guilt?

From your POV you're a free agent. From Gods POV you're a free agent. The only difference here is knowledge of the future.

Just because your future is known makes zero difference to your ability to choose... TO YOU. God isn't choosing anything. He's letting time unfold.

[truthBtold]

When did this all change.. he was helping people fight for land.. hardening hearts.. sending storms to kill.. those people didnt chose anything.

[fr0d0]

From Gods POV, you are free. He sees your entire timeline from anywhere he wants, from the beginning, the end, at any moment or all at once... that's what omniscience grants. He knows all that you did and are going to do, and all the choices that you make.

I'm curious as to how you reconcile that with the notions of God loving us and wanting us to be with him.

If God knows, and always has known, all the choices I've ever made and am ever going to make, then he knows that these choices will, according to traditional views, condemn me to an eternity of suffering. It isn't just me: God has known of the horrific fate of billions of human beings around the globe and across history. In fact, God has known of the suffering of these people since the instantiation of time (again, in the traditionalist views).

The questions naturally arise: If God loves us, why does he allow us to be born into a life of suffering? If God wants us to be with him, why does he allow the creation of Beings he knows will be punished forever?

As God is omniscient, then there isn't a thing I can do to save myself. I'm not so constituted (apparently) to suddenly convert to any one faith - God knows - and always has known - that I will never convert, never repent, never be saved. Since God created everything, he must also have created the choices I made that made me what I am.

Where is the free will?

Boru

Your freedom is to reject goodness. An ongoing choice every moment of your life. It's something you either struggle against or work with.

Sure, some peoples lives might be one long rejection. If God took away that choice, and forced you not to have the choice, then he would wipe out both good and bad. We would be left with indifference.

Both good and bad are inter dependant. To be given love, hate has to be an option.

Now I don't believe in "eternal punishment". What I understand is that everything is drawn to God. That is... in the end everyone has to be reconciled to him. Good wins.

[tor]

I'm curious as to how you reconcile that with the notions of God loving us and wanting us to be with him.

If God knows, and always has known, all the choices I've ever made and am ever going to make, then he knows that these choices will, according to traditional views, condemn me to an eternity of suffering. It isn't just me: God has known of the horrific fate of billions of human beings around the globe and across history. In fact, God has known of the suffering of these people since the instantiation of time (again, in the traditionalist views).

The questions naturally arise: If God loves us, why does he allow us to be born into a life of suffering? If God wants us to be with him, why does he allow the creation of Beings he knows will be punished forever?

As God is omniscient, then there isn't a thing I can do to save myself. I'm not so constituted (apparently) to suddenly convert to any one faith - God knows - and always has known - that I will never convert, never repent, never be saved. Since God created everything, he must also have created the choices I made that made me what I am.

Where is the free will?

Boru

Your freedom is to reject goodness. An ongoing choice every moment of your life. It's something you either struggle against or work with.

Sure, some peoples lives might be one long rejection. If God took away that choice, and forced you not to have the choice, then he would wipe out both good and bad. We would be left with indifference.

Both good and bad are inter dependant. To be given love, hate has to be an option.

Now I don't believe in "eternal punishment". What I understand is that everything is drawn to God. That is... in the end everyone has to be reconciled to him. Good wins.

Did god have holocaust in mind?

[fr0d0]

Did god have holocaust in mind?

Put more effort in tor

[tor]

Did god have holocaust in mind?

Put more effort in tor

More effort into what? This is a simple question. Did god have holocaust in mind?

[fr0d0]

You don't ever appear to put any effort into discussions, rather you take lazy one liner pot shots whilst people try to guess what it is you're after, and meanwhile try to explain themselves fully.

"Did god have holocaust in mind" isn't even a coherent sentence. What do you mean? What about replying to what we've been talking about?

[professor]

I heard that there are 2 beings seeking:
God is seeking to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are right before Him,
and Satan is seeking whom he MAY devour.
WE are the one needing to choose which "seeker" we want.

It's funny, most here, trumpet the right of a woman to kill her unborn child- yet- you are saying you have no choices in life?

[truthBtold]

I heard that there are 2 beings seeking:
God is seeking to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are right before Him,
and Satan is seeking whom he MAY devour.
WE are the one needing to choose which "seeker" we want.

It's funny, most here, trumpet the right of a woman to kill her unborn child- yet- you are saying you have no choices in life?

I choose satan because he did not create me, and he didnt create hell..

[professor]

You know Tb, you gotta lot of fight in you.......if only that was directed elsewhere.

There was a time in my life when I thought, I would have to go to hell with my friends,
it took a while for me to realize just how dumb that idea was.