Did Jesus Sell Us Out?

[themonkeyman]

Hey Folks,

I am pondering two interesting questions:

In the Garden of Gethsemane why did Jesus ask God to 'Take This Cup'. For someone who is supposed to be 'God' (As Christians Claim) then would he not be opting to not die on the cross.

The next part is the fact that if Jesus was God then he would clearly know what paradise is and would more than likely know that Pain on earth is nothing in comparison to Heaven and that its only Temporal.

Given that Jesus said this would it not be true that Jesus was actually appealing for God to send us all to 'Hell' so he could walk away - Jesus if he did this wilfully he would have never said such a prayer.

Lets Examine

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.

Jesus said that he will Not ask God for Help and to save him from this hour..

42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

Again if Jesus was God why on earth would he appeal to himself to remove the cup from himself so that his own will can be done.

My view is that Jesus most likely is NOT God he may well have been a Prophet and Wise teacher but he is NOT under any circumstances God.

The Johannine Comma is a prime example of something that was added around 300 AD to enforce the Idea of the Trinity and the whole 3 Gods in 1.

My Ultimate Question Is :: Did Jesus Sell Out Man Kind Even When He Said He WOULD NOT!

[truthBtold]

What i think is that its all a bunch of bullshit. He didnt want the cup cause two girls used it.. now for christians, the nonsense will start in 3...2..1...

[Confused Ape]

Nontrinitarianism

Nontrinitarians also dispute the veracity of the Nicene Creed based on its adoption nearly 300 years after the life of Jesus as a result of conflict within pre-Nicene early Christianity.

The Gospels of Luke and John have been dated to the first century. There were many different versions of early Christianity so who knows what the authors of these Gospels really believed? Luke's full version of the Mount of Olives incident is rather interesting.

Luke 22. 30-45

Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46 “Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.”

This suggests to me that -

1: Jesus wasn't supposed to be God.

2: He got cold feet at the thought of being crucified and gave into the temptation of asking God if he'd change his mind.

3: He was still prepared to go through with it if God didn't change his mind.

4: God sent an angel to strengthen him.

5: He knew he had to go through with it so he might have been asking God for strength in his anguish.

Was Jesus prepared to sell the human race out? Maybe he thought God could find another way of saving us all from sin. We'll never know what the Luke Gospel author really meant, though, because everything's been obscured by later theology. It's also possible that the real meaning was suppressed as heretical.

[themonkeyman]

Nontrinitarianism

Nontrinitarians also dispute the veracity of the Nicene Creed based on its adoption nearly 300 years after the life of Jesus as a result of conflict within pre-Nicene early Christianity.

The Gospels of Luke and John have been dated to the first century. There were many different versions of early Christianity so who knows what the authors of these Gospels really believed? Luke's full version of the Mount of Olives incident is rather interesting.

Luke 22. 30-45

Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46 “Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.”

This suggests to me that -

1: Jesus wasn't supposed to be God.

2: He got cold feet at the thought of being crucified and gave into the temptation of asking God if he'd change his mind.

3: He was still prepared to go through with it if God didn't change his mind.

4: God sent an angel to strengthen him.

5: He knew he had to go through with it so he might have been asking God for strength in his anguish.

Was Jesus prepared to sell the human race out? Maybe he thought God could find another way of saving us all from sin. We'll never know what the Luke Gospel author really meant, though, because everything's been obscured by later theology. It's also possible that the real meaning was suppressed as heretical.

Your right see this is the problem, We don't have any of the Original Texts and from what I've been reading we have over 300,000 variants of the NT Texts.

If Jesus was God and knew everything then asking God if there was another way would be non-nonsensical because he would know if there was or was not?!

To be honest there are people on this earth who go through worse Tortures than Jesus did back then so I find it hard when people say that Jesus was put through all this.

Heck he DID NOT Fulfill any prophecy according to the Jews and they started the Religion!

[Brakeman]

I think it's just an artifact of a flea infested 1st century con artist trying to make his story have some emotional zing to help sell it to the dimwitted.

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, this whole notion is a lot of why there was a schism between people who believed Jesus was God and people who believed he was human. This is why the modern stance doubles down on this and declares he's simultaneously both.

Since we can't technically observe him, does this make him Schrödinger's Jesus?

[Confused Ape]

To be honest there are people on this earth who go through worse Tortures than Jesus did back then so I find it hard when people say that Jesus was put through all this.

If you were going to be crucified would you think, "I shouldn't complain because some people have gone through worse tortures"?

This doesn't mean that there was a Jesus who was crucified, of course.